Chris Duffy

You get to opt out because you're already fit.

We're going to take a quick break, which I'm going to use to try and get into body sensualism.

But we will be right back.

Don't go anywhere.

And we are back.

Let's dig even deeper into like the practical ways that someone's listening to this and they're trying to like get out of the parts of this culture that are unattainable and overwhelming and exhausting.

What would you say are like the three things that someone should start by doing?

But it is also I just think you do have these unique blend of experiences where there's kind of no one else who could tell it in the way that you can't.

You know, you're a tech reporter.

In your teenage life, you worked as a model.

You felt the weirdness of those beauty standards and kind of tried to leave that world.

And you've lived in the U.S.

You've lived in East Asia.

You've seen this global change in the way that beauty standards are expressed.

And you've also experienced it personally.

I feel like every single person who is listening to this is experiencing already, whether they know it or not, this concept that you describe in the book that I'd never heard before, which is the technological gaze.

Can you define that for us?

Well, so this is an interesting part for me here is that

when you interview people who are making changes on people's physical bodies.

So when you're talking to people who are plastic surgeons or who are,