Chris Grey

And so it then creates this kind of narrative.

And it's enormously dangerous because then people, not necessarily huge numbers, but people go out into the streets.

And, of course, in the case of Northern Ireland and Belfast, it becomes inflected in very particular and more dangerous ways, I think, because of the residues of...

professionalised violence, really, that exists in a way that don't exist in the same way on the mainland.

I think that's a lot of what's going on.

And then meanwhile, you know, you've got people like, you know, Nigel Farage or Rupert Lowe, who you mentioned for that matter, who are very, very careful to say, you know, well, of course, you know, we're not advocating violence, you know, but we just, you know, but what was Farage's face?

Just, there must be cold-hearted... Cold-hearted rage.

I think was yes you know and and oh but you know I'm just warning of the dangers you know you know so he of course in that sense there's no offense being committed there but it's but it creates a climate yeah in which those offenses will be and that's the political game being played here it's it's it's one that we've seen many times through history which is that politicians are

And interestingly, I mean, I saw that David Frost, the former Brexit negotiator, Brexit minister.

Lord David Frost, please.

Lord David Frost.

But he also, he put out a tweet yesterday, I think, making reference to that and saying, you know, we need to be able to

close that border.

And that struck me as sort of deeply ironic, because of the fact that if we go back, and I guess we're making connections forwards and backwards with Brexit and the referendum and so on and so forth.

If we go back to before the referendum and during the campaign, when to nothing like a sufficient extent, but to an extent, the question of what it all meant for the Northern Ireland border was raised, in particular by Tony Blair and John Major.

Boris Johnson and Theresa Villiers, who at the time was the Northern Ireland Secretary and

and was very, very safe.

He said, no, no, no, no, no, it won't make any difference at all to the border, you know, because we've got the common travel area, nothing will threaten that.

The way in which they were saying that was actually in itself extremely mendacious because they were using...

the notion of the common travel area, which has to do with the movement of people, to suggest that there would not need to be any border anywhere for goods.