Chris Grey

Of course, what we are now seeing, but again, to stress this is not just coming from the fringe parties, but it's coming from the Conservatives and even to an extent from Labour, is

is actually talking about various forms of, I need to be a bit careful here, because there's different positions here, but at the extreme, various forms of repatriation.

So some of that is saying, well, deportation of, in inverted commas, illegal immigrants, by which they usually mean asylum seekers, which are not

by the way, illegal if they are in the system.

Through to it, the more, if you want to say, more mild end, I suppose, but certainly being entertained by the Labour government, the idea of changing the rules around indefinite leave to remain and changing them retrospectively, which would be an extraordinary thing if it were to happen.

So what they're saying is that the genie is out of the bottle, as it were.

So from their perspective, it doesn't matter.

Even if they acknowledge that the figures now are lower, they're sort of saying, well, there is still a problem because of that.

I mean, in parallel with that, I think that it is still the case that people on the right talk about their being or their having been uncontrolled immigration, which has never been the case.

You know, it has never been the case.

I mean, somebody, you may remember who it is, somebody in the last 24 hours,

has talked about indefinite leave to remain being handed out like smarties.

And I don't know if these people actually know anybody who has actually ever had to go through the processes involved.

It's a tough process.

But maybe only in the short run, because in the long run, I think the effect of that is we'll always be able to pull everything in that right-woods direction.

It is incredible.

Again, you know, there's an awful lot to kind of unpack in there.

But I do think the headline, which you stressed, and which I think should be stressed even more, perhaps, is that the only debate is the extent of the damage.

And it is extraordinary because...

Don't forget, Brexit was not sold on the basis of, well, it won't be too bad.