Chris Johns

I'm not sure that many politicians in many jurisdictions have done it, actually.

Do you remember when Ireland and Britain first joined the EEC?

I suspect it was called back then, or maybe the European Community or something, back in 1973, Jim.

I sure do.

Just a nip.

And I've always tweaked your tale a little bit and a lot of my Irish friends for saying that there was really only two main motivations for Ireland joining Europe back in 1973.

One is touched on by Ganesh and one is my invention.

Ganesh's story is that Ireland wanted to escape the governance of the Catholic Church and wanted, therefore, in a way, a subconscious way to be more ruled by Brussels than by men wearing silly clothes.

hats and coats.

I actually don't agree with that.

I thought you would say that.

The second reason, which I've always teased you with, is that, and this is mine, not Janan's, is that at the time, Britain was at best ambivalent about joining the EU.

And there was always a huge anti-EU faction, particularly within the Tory party, that then went on to campaign for 40 years and eventually won.

So Britain always had a very ambivalent, as I say, at best attitude towards the EU because Europe was this chaotic place.

It had Ireland and the Irish experience and Ganesh's explanation.

Maybe there were others.

I'd be delighted to hear yours.

And inevitably, he talks about Italy.

I've also said for many years, echoing Ganesh's remarks, that Italy really did want to be governed by Brussels rather than itself because Italy was ungovernable.

In the 1950s, for example, it had seven prime ministers.