Chris Johns

And of course, that has echoes in the UK today.

So Britain...

Ganesh says, was a well-run country in the 1970s when it joined and was ambivalent about the EU because the EU wasn't well-run domestically.

And each different country, I've mentioned two, had domestic reasons for wanting to cede power to Brussels so that these countries could become better run.

And I think that was part of it.

It wasn't maybe the main part of it, but it was certainly a whole part of what was going on.

You and I have

talked many, many times about the original founding of the EU as a peace project designed to prevent Germany and France going to war every 50 years.

Now, the idea that Britain was a well-run country in the 1970s is an interesting one.

And Ganesh talks about the Rolls-Royce civil service, the fact that the monarchy was...

Well respected, the BBC was a global institution with also huge respect.

I suspect the writers of Yes Minister, a British comedy programme taking the mickey out of British governance, that Rolls-Royce civil service in particular, would disagree with the idea that Britain was well run in the 70s.

And it's certainly growing.

I grew up in the 70s in many ways, if I ever did grow up, Jim.

And it didn't feel like a well-run place to me back then.

But anyway, that's his thesis.

Yeah, I agree.

The 70s were terrible, actually.

Power cuts, three days a week, strikes, public sector strikes, nationalised industry strikes.

Oh, my God, it was awful.