Cindy Cohn

Canada now is debating something that Signal has said we're not going to be able to offer our product and our tool in Canada if they pass this law.

So the fight just goes on.

And I've kind of come to the sad conclusion that it's just something like free speech, like privacy that we're just always going to have to stand up for.

Yeah.

I would say in the 90s, we didn't anticipate that spying on everybody would become the number one business model of the internet.

It turns out.

And it also has created this problem with the five big tech giants that control the vast majority of people's experience online.

And these two things together have really forced us to...

We don't make common cause with the tech giants anymore at the level that we used to because they used to stand up for their users and increasingly they're adversarial to their users.

So what I tell all the tech companies is, look, if you stand with your users, we will stand with you.

And if you stand against your users, we're going to be the first in line.

And sadly, that second part has become bigger now.

than I think it should.

But it's dragged us into these places where we're adversarial against the tech giants because they're not standing with users.

I mean, it depends on the topic, right?

You know, the early fights, EFF was involved a lot in trying to make copyright balanced in the digital age.

And we worked a lot with the companies on this because they wanted to give you the ability to make your own media and rip, mix and burn those kinds of things.

And we would stand with them.

But I think, again, as surveillance became the business model, as they became, you know, less interested in empowering their users and more interested in their surveilling their users, we've separated.

And now, you know, we stand up for things like, you know, the Section 230, the idea that