Clark Fredericks
Appearances
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
I go up to his door. We got into a violent fight. He slipped in the blood that was both of ours on the floor. And I looked him in the eye, and I said, it's not so fun with little boys now, is it, Dennis?
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And this article about these three Boy Scouts in the county next to me who were suing their Boy Scout leader said, And came across and it mentioned the law firm they were using. So I was like, screw it. I'm going to call this law firm. So I called the law firm, got in touch with this lawyer, went and saw him. And he's like, the way the law states now, you have no case.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
He goes, I know some of the advocates working to overturn the law. I know them personally. He goes, maybe your story is so over the top, you can sway some of the senators that are holding this up, specifically Senator Sweeney. And maybe your story can help get a new law. So I became an advocate. I went in there for selfish reasons.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And I walked out of that office representing every abuse victim in the state. And I became an advocate and started meeting with senators. And I got to testify before a grand jury or not a grand jury, before a Senate committee. And in two years, they adopted the new law. Some of the advocates were working for over 15 years on this new law. And just it was getting held up.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
They were getting nowhere. They were getting blocked. And I'm not saying my story was the deciding factor, but I'm just saying I only had to work on it for two years with them for us to finally get the new law passed. What really did it for our state is Pennsylvania. The attorney general did an investigation on the Catholic Church, and it was a bombshell report. And it was just it.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
The numbers were so astronomical. that our attorney general then said, I'm going to open up, you know, an investigation, you know, into abuse in the churches as well. And that sort of forced the hand of the senators that were holding it up. And, you know, they adopted into law. The ironic part is Pennsylvania still hasn't adopted the law.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Their report forced the hand of Jersey, and yet they're still waiting for their law.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
You know what? They gave each person five minutes and nobody could stay within the five minutes. Of course. And it was a draining all day affair. You know, everybody's like their one chance to get their story out in front of all these senators. And the senators would have to bang the gavel like your five minutes is up and people are crying and screaming, no, I'm not done yet.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And I'm like, we are losing these senators. I said to this teacher I went down with who was also abused, her and I would drive together. I'm like, we're losing people. I'm like, I'm going to cut my story down. And I just cut my story down to like a minute and a half. And I just gave him a gut punch. Um, of, you know, uh, waking up in a suicide cell because I had murdered my abuser.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And if, uh, if you guys don't adopt the new law, you're going to have blood on your hands and you're going to have a lot more Clarks running around who feel they have no recourse and, uh, they're going to take law into their own hands and it's going to be on all of you.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Yeah. You know, and, uh, and, and, you know, they, they voted, uh, A hundred percent. Yay. And then, uh, it had to go to the full assembly and Senate and, uh, um, that was voted yes. And then it goes to the governor and that was, yeah, to the governor and that was voted yes. Wow. And, uh, and then we had it. Wow.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
So, uh, so I worked on that for a couple of years and, uh, then I, I, I stumbled into, um, my first public speaking opportunity. I got released basically the 1st of 2017. I got released December 30th. So it was like the start of 2017. And I started going to Bible class at the county jail. And this one guy that came in, I really connected with him and he wrote me when I was in prison.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
During your historical society once a month meeting, maybe. But as soon as he left that meeting, it was back into hunting mode.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
He's like, you got to come check out our church when you get out. It's a huge church. So I went to his church And just, you know, I know we're going on for a while, but real quick. No, not at all. When I was in the county jail, like I could not pray. Like if I close my eyes to pray, I would see Jesus naked on the cross, like with his penis, everything. Like I have to shake my head out.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
When I would go to pray, I would see sex images from pornography I looked at. When I would go to pray, I would see the murder. I would see his dead body on the floor. When I would go to pray, I'd be a 12-year-old boy screaming. I would just have to shake my head. It was literally making me insane. I had polluted my mind so. I was so separated from God.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Uh, you know, I filled my mind for decades with, with rage, anger, violence, sex, drugs, alcohol, pornography, um, you name it, nothing, nothing healthy, nothing good. It was all just crap going into my system. And, uh, So I signed up for Bible study, even though I couldn't pray. I'm like, you know, this is the last ditch effort here.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And I was convinced that the guy teaching Bible study was going to be a right-wing fanatical, wagging your finger dude at me. And I'm like, this guy's an asshole. I'm just going to tell the guards, get me out of here. Like, you know, they'll take you out. And two elevators full of us go down to the floor. And I work myself to the back of the room.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
So I'm the last one and I'm watching and he's like shaking hands and he's hugging guys and shaking hands. And he's got this smile on his face. And I'm like, you phony baloney. And I go up there and he hugs me and I'm like stiff as a board. And he whispers in my ear, I've been praying for you and my congregation has been praying for you. And I pull away from him. I go, do you know who I am?
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
He goes, I know who you are. I read the papers. And I go, and you've been praying for me? He goes, yeah. I was like, wow, thanks, bro. He's like, yeah, you got it. And I was like, huh. And we went in there and he later on said, you know, I started off that meeting for you. And he went into the whole free will.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
He's like, you know, a lot of you are here because people exerted free will in a negative way against you. He goes, we are not puppets on a string where God is saving the day for every calamity or every catastrophe. What would be the sense of life then? If God's always going to step in, he goes, God gave us free will and it could be used for good or for evil.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And the person sitting next to you can decide to use theirs for good or evil. And you could be vulnerable and they could use it for evil and something bad could happen to you. Doesn't mean that God doesn't love you. Doesn't mean that God's not weeping over what's happening to you. It just means that God gave us all free will and it's up to us to how we want to use it.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And I was like, and that instantly took that dividing wall I had between me and God down. I went up to my cell that night and I instantly started praying. Like it was just removed. Like, boom, I could close my eyes and pray. I literally could not close my eyes without just seeing crap. Like every time I tried to pray.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
I was like, thank you, God. Like literally like, and like, I wish, I wish I could pray like I prayed in jail. Like it was so raw and it was like, like in your face to God, like, hey man, I'm in shit right now, bro. I need your help, man. I don't know how to go through another day. Like, help me, you know? And I would literally have to pray for help to get through the next 30 seconds.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Like, praying for help to get through the next hour or the next day, that was like... Like, I need help just to get through the next 30 seconds. Wow. The next 30 seconds. Because I just, like, I was fighting suicidal thoughts. I was, you know, my molestations on the front page of all the papers. You know, I... You know, I've always had drugs and alcohol to lean on when I felt uncomfortable.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
I got nothing now to lean on. The lawyer I picked, he said, I just want you to get this through your head right now and we're not going to talk about it again. I go, what's that? He goes, you're not getting bailed out. He goes, I don't even want you to like entertain that thought. He goes, one, I don't trust your mental state. Two, you're an addict.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Well, we think evil is going to be a guy with a tail and a pitchfork and horns. Yeah. What's evil is a guy masquerading as a lieutenant and a Boy Scout leader and a member of Kiwanis Club for the betterment of children in the community who's children. Right. That's pure evil there.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
I don't trust you getting out that you wouldn't go back to drugs and alcohol. Three, you murdered someone. I don't think it looks healthy for you to go be seen in restaurants and shopping centers and bars without a care in the world. And he goes, so I want you to just stay here. I want you to work on yourself. And every day you're in here will apply to whatever sentence you get.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
So just get comfortable in here. I was like, all right, man. You know, so that's what I did. And I would tell like all the young heroin addicts would come in and they'd want to instantly get out and they'd be, mom, you got to get me out of here, man. There's murderers in here. Me? And I'd be like, they'd hang up. And I'd be like, dude, stop hassling your mother about getting out of here.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Just settle in here. Get weaned off the drugs. Think about yourself, where your life's at. And, you know, start working on yourself while you're in here. This isn't that bad for you. And they'd be like, all right, man. The next day, they'd be like, mom, you got to get me out of here. Because the drugs are calling them. The pull of the drugs is so strong.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
So yeah, so that was my spiritual, started my spiritual journey. That guy literally held my spirituality in his hand, Brother Bob. And had he... done the wrong thing, said the wrong thing, had he not even explained free will to me, I don't know if I'd be where I'm at today. Faith is a big thing for me.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Yeah, we could sit here for 10 hours. That's why people got to get the book, it's hard.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
All throughout. Yeah, we didn't even say like, you know, like my father ended up dying in 1999. And on his deathbed, he confessed to me that he was molested by a Catholic priest. And I just got to believe that was his last ditch effort trying to get me to open up to him. Like he had tried when I was younger. He saw... My life was going absolutely nowhere.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And I think him saying that was just his last chance before he died to like, I got to get my son to like get over this hump, man.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
You know, I have so many people that reach out to me that want to go confront their abuser. And I just say, no, don't do it. They're evil. They're master manipulators. They're liars. They don't want to heal. They don't want to get healthy. whatever they're going to tell you is not going to be what you want to hear. They're not going to say, I'm sorry. They never say they're sorry.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
They can't, they just can't, they can't go there.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Yeah, they won't do it. And, you know, when I was in prison, my therapist, she said to me, she goes, Clark, I just want you to be aware the unit you're housed on, one out of three, Closer to two out of three guys are there for sex crimes. And she goes, mostly against children. I'm like, what? She goes, yeah. And I go, holy smokes. And I go, let me ask you something.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
What do you do for them while they're in here to help them before they get released? And she made no bones about it that she was as liberal as the day was long. This woman was an angel. She was the sweetest lady. You know, she would say, you know, you can't be a therapist in a prison and not be a liberal person, you know. And so I'm expecting some feel good answer from her.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And she goes, we do absolutely nothing. And I go, what are you talking about? And she goes, Clark, they're liars and master manipulators and they don't want help. And anything they say to us would just be a lie to try to get their sentence reduced. I'm like, really? She goes, yep. So I go, they just sit here doing their time to get out and reoffend. She goes, pretty much.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
She goes, if their case is that horrific, they can be civilly committed. Our laundry guy, nice dude on the tier, did our laundry, slip him a bag of coffee. He'll put some starch in it, have everything nice and folded for you. Laundry comes back. Great. He's telling us two months. I'm getting out next month. I get out two weeks. I get out one week. I get out.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
They come, they throw him up against the wall, they shackle him and they take him away. And we go to somebody goes to the guard on duty. They're like, what the hell they take him away for? Like, you don't know what he's here for? Like, no, like he did the most horrific thing to children and he just got civilly committed. And we're like, no shit. Good. Wow. Yeah, dude.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Yeah, I mean, pedophiles have to initiate touch at some point. You know, it's like, I see people tussle hair and it just sends a shiver down my spine, you know, like... to the average person and, hey, Billy, you know, it's harmless. For a pedophile, it's, ah, I'm touching him, I'm touching him.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
So yeah, people didn't go around with their paperwork. Everybody would lie to you what they're there for. If it ever came out, you didn't even... I didn't even bother asking. So my therapist told me about the one out of three, two out of three. She goes, I don't want people... It's called putting a battery pack on you. She goes, I don't want people...
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
knowing why you're here and putting a battery pack on you to go fuck guys up. And I said this to the prosecutor's psych who evaluated me before I took the plea deal. He said, how do I know you get released and you're not going to go harm anyone? And I said, I would only be harming someone who had molested me. And I go, and that person's gone. And so that's what I said to her.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
I'm like, they're not my battle. I'm not here to just go... If I got a life sentence, that would be a different thing. Because then fuck it. So I go, you don't have to worry about a battery pack being put on me.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Yeah, not that, I left with plenty of time and made it here in less than an hour, so it wasn't bad.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
It's not normal at 12 years old to start doing drugs and drinking.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Yeah. And like, all right. So, you know, if you're a single mom and the next door neighbor is always offering, you know, to help out with picking up Susie or Johnny. Beware if the coach, you know, just thinks your kid is going to be a star and wants to take them under their wing and, you know, mentor them.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Beware if, you know, the priest just, you know, adores your child and thinks they're the cutest and, you know... Just I'll drive them home after Bible study practice. You literally can't trust anyone. There's not a troll living under the bridge who's going to snatch your child. There is a coach. There is a priest. There is a doctor. There is a teacher. There is a cop.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
There is the next door neighbor. There is the uncle. There is all of those who will. Yeah.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Well, you got to, you know, I tell people, you know, people will reach out to me and be like, you're the first one I'm opening up to. You got to find someone you trust. You know, people will be like, I don't trust anyone. Then I'll call me, you know, reach out to me. I answer all my stuff, man. There's nobody who's reached out to me who hasn't gotten answered.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
You know, it may take a little time, but... You just got to find that person. Once you get it out the first time, then it's like, all right, my world didn't just fall apart. And just if you're going to talk to somebody, everybody thinks they got to be a fixer. Just the person you're going to talk to, just be like, hey. Can we sit? I got something important I want to tell you.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And then from the tussle of the hair, it goes to, you know, patting the knee and then patting the thigh. And then it goes from there. You know, you gotta get your potential victim accustomed to touch from you like nothing nothing's out of the ordinary you know and then and then before you know it you're you're you're ensnared in a trap so he initiates both he does touch and a secret simultaneously
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
I don't need you to try to do anything about what I'm going to tell you other than listen. You just need someone to listen. Everybody gets uncomfortable. So if you're listening and you're going to be the one who's the listener, just listen. You don't have to be the healer. Just sit in the mud with the person while they give you their spiel.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And if you're the person who was abused, find that person you trust, your best friend, your Someone. You can't bury this. You can bury it and buy yourself some time, but it's going to come out. It's going to come out in destructive ways.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Yeah. I mean, I walked away and she walked away and 30 years went by and she was like a little tickle in my skull. It wouldn't come out every week, every month, every year even. But she would flare up and I'd be like, man, I wonder what Lisa's up to. I'd let Lisa get away. Man, we had a lot of passion. We had a lot of love.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
you know, now I'm at a prison, I get this law passed and I'm just like, you know, I'm speaking, working long hours and just like, I either got to get a pit bull or I got to get a girlfriend. And I'm like, I'm at a stage where, Where to be completely intimate with the next person, I got to put Lisa to bed.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
I can't really try to get into something where I still got this tickle from somebody from 30 years ago. So I'm going to reach out to Lisa. And I'm going to apologize for failing her 30 years prior and not being able to commit and not being able to be intimate. And I'm going to tell her why. And I found her on Facebook.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
I sent her a private message, laying everything out, the murder, the drugs, the molestation, all of it. Um, and, uh, just, uh, I needed you to know the full story and, uh, it wasn't because I didn't love you, I did. And I'm sorry for how everything went down.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And I like to say my thumb hovered over that send button, like, cause I had this fantasy in my head and hitting the send button and it doesn't go the way I want it to go, that fantasy just gets. So is it better to just keep the fantasy alive in my mind until the day I die? or to potentially have that fantasy get blown up and ruined. And I'm like, no, you got to hit the send button.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
So I hit the send button. And she responded. And... responded and she responded. I responded, she responded. And I'm like, finally, you know, after two weeks of texting, I said, I want to get a cup of coffee. She lived about a hour and a half away. And we met for coffee and realized we still loved each other. And that was six years ago and we're still together.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And we lived together in Westchester, New York. Sometimes it works out.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Like we're touching on stuff, you know, like, you know, in the book, I go into more detail on a lot of stuff.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
July 29th. Okay. Yeah. Scarred. It's up on Amazon for pre-order, you know, head over and get it. And, uh, you know, I, I just think like so many books when I was locked up, like, just like, we're like light bulbs going off in me. And I just think this will be a light bulb, you know, cause I sunk to the point where I was held for murdering a Lieutenant.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Yeah. I mean, it's unbelievable without the internet back then, how they all came up with devising the same pattern of behavior to get a victim. Secrets, touch, alcohol, pornography, boom, molestation. That's like all of them. It was the MO. It's still the MO. And they have... You know, like my girlfriend thinks I've got like the sixth sense to spot people who are broken or damaged.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
I was, I was put into the very jail where he worked for 25 years. Like I, It doesn't get worse than that. Like how much lower do you want to sink? That's like, you know, and just didn't see a way out of it. And yet I decided, you know, I got to confront this demon finally. And here I am today, you know.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Because we'll go somewhere and like I'll bring up my story to the waitress, to the front desk person at a hotel, to the Uber driver. And sure enough, they'll be like, me too. And she's like, it's so bizarre how you can do that. And it's the same thing with predators. I said this in therapy one time. I'm like, how the heck do these predators...
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
You know, it's like we have a beacon light above our head saying, I'm ripe for the pickings. You know, I had this open heart surgery scar that made me different from everybody else. And like when you're a little kid, you just want to fit in with everybody. So here I got this scar and I feel different. I'm insecure about it. And this guy like smells blood in the water, you know? And so...
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
You know, I interview people for my podcast and they are they are repeatedly abused throughout their childhood into their adult life over and over and over. And they're like, you know, I just don't know how they always found me.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
It's just like, you know, we're on that vibrational chart and we're at the bottom and the predators, you know, can feel we're at the bottom and and they they pounce on it, man. Yeah.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Well, I mean, he devoted years. Like, you know, we're talking, you know, the next six, seven years. He's invested in my life, in my brother's life, not knowing. And who knows how many other kids at the same time he has at various levels of the grooming process. So the touching of the scar at six. Beers down at the lake in his truck at nine.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Nine years old. We're down there all the time, the summer months, and he's always coming by, stopping his truck, teaching us how to fish, talking to us kids for hours. No adult should be randomly spending time. hours with little children. Like, why? People, you're just not that nice of a person. There's a reason.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
So if somebody, you know, the coach that really sees something in your kid and they're going to take them under the wing and like make them, you know, the star player or You know, the piano player who's, you know, doing the private lessons and really thinks your daughter can really, you know, be a top-notch pianist, you know. And, you know, be aware.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Like, it's just not normal for adults to be spending so much time with kids.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Yeah, it was around that, you know, 8, 9 range. Yeah. You know, he would catch sunfish, you know, when he's teaching us to fish, and he would smash them against the rocks. Or he'd throw it on the ground and pick up a big rock and smash it on top of it. And he would tell us, sunfish are a worthless fish. This is what you do to worthless things.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And one day down at the dam area, there was a wooden bridge, one lane, one bridge that went across the river and it was pretty low to the water. And he stops on the bridge and he yells out his window to a group of us, I got to go up the road for like 15 minutes. I want you guys to catch as many sunfish as you can and save them and I'll be back. We're like, okay.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
So like sunfish, like you don't even have to like put a worm on, you know, like they're gullible. Another thing about sunfish, gullible, you know, like you can just put that shiny hook in and they'll bite on it, at least down by the dam area they would. And so we catch a bunch of sunfish. He comes back and he's like, I want you to lay them all out on the bridge.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
He goes, I told you how worthless these are. And he goes, I'm going to run over them with my truck. So like, you know, we're like his little soldiers and we put the sunfish out on the bridge and he goes back and forth, back and forth, back and forth, squishing their guts out, popping their eyes out.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And then he like has us, you know, pick them up with everything hanging out and throw them into the water. And that's what you do to worthless things. So whatever, you know, you could take this whole thing. I've asked all my therapists to get a therapeutic take on it. He's equating you gullible little boys to sunfish.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And when he's telling you that when he's done with you or finds you not useful, this is what could happen to you.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Yeah, it was, you know, like, we just went through the motions to do what we had to do. But, you know, like, we're like, oh, gross. Gross. You know, like, you know, we didn't go into more, like... thought process than that, like other than just gross.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Progresses to wrestling matches. And he tells me he wrestled, he sets it up with, I used to wrestle your brother, who's six years older than me, and my next door neighbor directly across the street, who was my brother's best friend. They're both six years older than me. I used to wrestle, and they were both in the scouts. I used to wrestle with your brother and with Jeff.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And let's see how tough you are compared to them.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Oh, just, he would, you know, like down at the dam, he'd be like, throw your bike in the back of my truck. Let's go over to the other, you know, the Polska River went from one end of the town down to another end. The fish aren't biting here. Let's go over to the other side, you know, by the Gristmill Bridge and see how fish are there. And he would always slip into the water.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
and get his sneaker wet or whatever he was wearing or his, you know, pant leg wet. Oh, we got to go up to my house so I can change. And then get me comfortable being at his house. You know, give me a beer while we're at the house. And, you know, how many times that happened, I can't even tell you. You know, like going up to his house and him slipping in the water or whatever.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Yeah, over years. Wow. So, you know, and this was all out of the eyes of my family. You know, like everything's down at the lake. It's not like he's, you know, when he's coming to the house, he's just coming to see everybody and be Mr. Jovial, you know?
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And it's not like trying to, other than that one time, you know, with my scar when everybody was in the backyard and he had me in the den by myself.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Yeah, I saw Dennis and, you know, we were fishing.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
You know, at 10 years old, you're having a beer. At nine years old, having a beer with the lieutenant in the sheriff's department. How cool is that? Like, why would you want to ruin that? And he'd be like, you know, everything was our secret.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Oh, yeah, yeah. You know, the beers obviously were a secret.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And he would always, you know, have candy and gum to give me and, you know, make sure I don't have anything on my breath. Ah. Yeah. And so just one of the times going to his house, you know, let's try wrestling. Let's see how tough you are. And, you know, so he would allow me to, like, Be the aggressor on top for a little while, I guess, till he got hard and excited.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And then it like and I've heard this from so many other victims of abuse where like the eyes would literally change. You could see his eyes dilate and become dark and just his presence got dark and his everything about him changed. And so many other victims, you know, like people I'll interview, they'll be like, and then their eyes changed. I'm like, you too?
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And like, and I've heard that like countless times. And his eyes change and he becomes the aggressor and not realizing it then that he has a heart on, but, you know, would get me pinned to the ground and then gyrate on top of me. And, you know, it wasn't until I looked back on it when I was older, like, you know, what he was doing. Of course. Yeah. So it progressed to that.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Yeah. Yeah. Because I wasn't putting two and two together with the hard-on, you know, the erect penis and what, you know, what he was doing. Right. You know, just like... You know, not trying to look any more into it than like, whatever, you know.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Yeah. Yeah. It was at 11 and 12, you know, like things progress, you know, like it's like I said, he's spending years with me just to go from touching the scar to... to now wrestling matches with a hard-on. And over that time, he's showing me pornography.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
He, you know, down at the lake, you know, come in my truck. And have a beer. He always had a six pack in his truck. And he's, you know, he's got this whole scenario where his friend just bought an old farmhouse and they were clearing it out and there was a desk left behind. And he opened up one of the drawers and it was filled with pornography.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And I grabbed a handful of them and here, let's look at them. And they're like, OK, cool. You know, like thinking like that. You know, oh, I might see some boobs or something, you know. And it's just Polaroids of close-up penises. And he's giggling and laughing, you know, and handing them to me. Aren't these so funny looking? And, you know, after... X amount of them that he handed over to me.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
I'm like, where's all the women, Den? He's like, oh, those must have been in the other drawer. I'll grab some of them next time I'm over there. I'm like, all right, you know. And just, you know, so it's testing me. It's getting me comfortable, you know, seeing penises, I guess. He's telling me how he was always going out west, right?
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And he told me how he met the Marlboro Man, who was the guy portrayed on the back of the magazines back in the day, always smoking. And the quintessential cool guy. And he tells me how he met the Marlboro Man and the Marlboro Man confided in him that he's gay. And he's like, it didn't bother me at all. He was the greatest guy in the world. We hung out for days out there.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
So he's taken the most macho, coolest guy in society and making him gay. Right. Again, to test you, to get you comfortable with...
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
You know, but I'm like, all right, whatever. He grabbed the wrong pictures out. And that, is that another secret? And like, you know, thinking back on it, you know, like, you know, he would tell me how my brother and my next door neighbor, Jeff, would get so drunk at his house, he'd have to take their clothes off and put them to bed. And...
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
You know, so then I think back, you know, when I get old enough, thinking back like, oh, were some of those Polaroids that he showed me of? Oh, fuck. Jeff and my brother, you know, naked penis, you know, their penises. And, yeah.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
He doesn't, again, he's not seeing. Right. Everything's down, like, lake area. Yeah. Throw your bike in my truck. To the house. To the house, to the, you know, just fishing, you know. Yeah, it was just out of the watchful eye.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
No, rumors came out about a year after he had... Okay.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
So it leads up to... The wrestling around 10. Then it went into oral sex, him performing oral sex on me while jerking off at 11.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Got me to, it was a whole, oh man. It's just, he would set up these skits, scenarios, let's say, where he's like, you know, we're at his house. He gives me a glass of blackberry brandy this time. with a beer, has me chug the blackberry brandy, and then says, let's play bumping logs. And he goes, I'll be right back. And, you know, he wore like cargo shorts and he comes back into the room.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
He disappeared into his bedroom for a few minutes and comes back. And it looked like he had stuck something in his shorts, not realizing it was his erect penis. And he's stand up and he, you know, it's summer. You know, I've got shorts on. If you ever look at the 1970s shorts. Yeah. Like they're the gayest looking thing. It was like pedophiles designed them.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
I Googled it for some reason a couple of years ago. I'm like, oh man, look how gay they look. You know, like it's a pedophile's dream, those shorts. And he pulls me into him. And he's like, your log's not ready. We're going to get your log ready. And he's giggling and I'm laughing, you know, I drank this bottle, a glass of Blackberry. And he's like, sit on this chair.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And he goes, no matter what happens, keep your eyes closed. And he's like, don't open your eyes. I'm like, okay. And I'm sitting on his chair. And in a second, he slips my shorts down. starts blowing me and he's got his cock out, um, masturbating. And I opened my eyes like it just at a, like what the fuck's going on here. And, uh, he did what he did. And, uh,
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Yeah. I mean, you think rural areas are isolated from the hardcore crime. It's more in the populated areas. Yeah. But it's like a haven for pedophiles, though. Especially back in the timeframe I grew up, the 70s, there was so much freedom back then. Yeah. You know, people nowadays, they just can't believe how kids were allowed all this freedom by their parents. It was...
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Just, you know, whatever, you know, whatever scenario at the end, you know, he came up with, you know, our secret, you know. You know, the thing was. And not to minimize, you know, but I'm not I'm not seeing him on a daily basis. I'm not getting abused on a daily basis. So, like, it could get spread out for weeks or months, you know, before running into him again.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
So I can't you know, I'm sure I saw him. You know, multiple times after that. But the next event that sticks out in my mind is when me at 12. And that was the summer back then they opened up a new high school. And they took the elementary seventh and eighth grade out of the elementary school and put it into the high school. So I graduated sixth grade.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And in that summer before going off to the high school to start seventh grade is when he raped me. And he had this whole elaborate plan he wanted my help with. And we ended up at his house. And again, Blackberry. And it was a summer day. And it seemed like, I don't know, I just had this suspicion he put his heat on because his house was sweltering.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And it led to us being on his bed and sweating and taking our clothes off. And before you know it, he's got me in a bear hug. And I'm crying and screaming. And this piece of garbage whispers in my ear. He's got me like where I can't move and whispers in my ear just another minute, you know, so that he can finish his deed. Yeah. And he had a coon dog. Coon dogs have a long, drawn-out howl.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And his dog was howling. He had a, you know, a back room. And the dog was just going nuts because of my screams and cries. And we got done, you know, cleaned me up like a great guy and sat me down at his kitchen table, got me another beer, you know, like, you know, like we're just two lovers who just had a nice romantic tryst or something and having a beer afterwards. And, uh,
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
He brought his dog in who's still howling and brought it right in front of me and said, I want to show you what will happen to you if you open up your mouth about what just occurred. And he began beating his dog and beating his dog and beating his dog. And I'm screaming and I'm crying and I'm begging him, please stop, Dennis, please, please, please, please, please stop.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And he beat the dog and the dog lay at a heap at my feet. And he goes, you will not talk about what just happened or that will happen to you. And I mean, so what am I supposed to do after that? Like go running home to my parents and open up my mouth about what just happened? So he dropped me off down at the, uh, dam area with my bike.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And I, uh, I took my bike and I ran down the river and I ditched my bike in the weeds and I just stood by the river and I was like rocking and hugging myself. And, uh, And crying a little. And my mind said, we are never going to talk about this. Talking about it is reliving it. And we are definitely not going to relive it. And that really like was the worst. Our minds try to protect us.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And a lot of times they do the complete opposite of what we need. Like I needed to, I needed to talk about it instantly. And instead I clammed up. And I had gotten that Christmas after that summer, I got a dirt bike and I began riding dirt bikes at our lake community. There was a track behind our house and I avoided the dam area.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Like I just started riding dirt bikes with older kids at the lake and not going back to the dam area anymore. Yeah. And that dirt bike became, you know, like my savior, you know, to get me away.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
you know, as soon as you could learn how to ride your bike, be gone and be back at dinner time. Right. Like six years old, like, like there was no cell phones, there was no computers. So the parents didn't want you around the house. They wanted you out getting dirty and, and, you know, doing whatever.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Is it... Yeah, everything changed after, you know... I mean, somehow at 11, with the blowjob, I was able to just disconnect from that. But the... changed everything. It changed... I had been an altar boy in the Episcopal Church. Boom, I'm done with God. You know, like, back then, you know, the old crusty ministers, you know, like... You do good and good things will happen to you.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
That's it. Yeah. And, uh, you know, I, I grew up in a real rural area of New Jersey, a town called Stillwater. Um, It just lived at a lake community. So like, you know, all the kids, you know, would go down to where there was a dam, you know, that separated the lake and then from the river, you know, the river started at the dam.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
You step out of line and you incur God's wrath, you know, during his sermons. And like, what the F could I have done to incur God's wrath for this to have happened to me? Fuck that.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Yeah. And like, like, you know. I didn't learn a lot later on that we have free will and free will you can use for good or for evil. It's not like God was allowing this to happen. We want God to be the superhero who's going to save the train from going off the tracks or the boat from capsizing or the Boy Scout from getting...
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
If God is doing all those things, the plane from crashing, what's the sense of life? We're just puppets then. Right. Our free will is violated. And God is in the sky controlling everything. But at the time, that's what it felt like. Yeah, of course. It didn't seem like free will. Nobody had ever taught me about free will. It just seemed like God had let me down and- Done with it.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Yeah, school. I realized I was a smart kid and could do absolutely zero and get passing grades. And that's what I did. I did. I let my guard down one time, whether it was seventh or eighth grade. In an English class, we had to write a... The teacher gave every student a letter in the alphabet.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And you had to write a one-page short story using that letter that you got assigned to start words, as many words as you possibly can. I got assigned the letter S. And I still have that essay. And I wrote about being a slave on a ship. where the shipmaster is a gay guy who's trying to come into my bunk at night to molest me, and I'm beating him with a metal pipe at night.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And I got this whole one-page scenario of this going on, and the teacher gives me an A and writes, good job, use more paragraphs next time. Just like it's perfectly fine for a 12-, 13-year-old to be writing about a gay guy who's trying to get into his bed at night and beating him with a pipe.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
No, no, no. And then after that, I was a clam. That was it. Were you trying to get... I can't recall. I had forgotten about that essay. And when I got arrested, my mother found it. She went through my childhood stuff. And she's like, oh my God, how did I never see this? How did nobody bring this to my attention? She gave it to my lawyer. And then my lawyer made a copy for me to read.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And I was like... I'm like, I vaguely remember writing that, you know, just broken and my pain and trauma, poor anatomy, you know? And then as far as your relationships with friends. Yeah, I was, and you know, this is what a lot of us do, you know, like I just put on a false face. You know, we have two faces, you know, the one we show the world, the one behind closed doors.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
The one I showed the world was just like positive, happy, go lucky Clark, you know, Mr. Friendly, sociable. My mother worked in the school. She was in the library. You know, maybe this teacher thought, you know, like Joan would obviously know if something was going on. This is just Clark with a wild imagination, you know? And... So the teachers, you know, liked me.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
I was real popular with friends and, you know, my classmates.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And just fishing, and there was ball fields, basketball courts, tennis courts, playgrounds, just like everything, you know? So everything, everybody congregated down by the dam area. There was beaches for the lake.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And then it morphed into drinking in high school. Alcohol became easy to get. Back then they had paper licenses. When I was a freshman, my brother in the drinking age was 18. My brother tossed me his expired paper license with his date of birth. And nobody even looked at that it was expired. I was able to get served wherever. Yeah.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Um, yeah, but my anger isn't showing in those years, you know, like the rage is building, you know, like the anger is building. It's, it's, you know, it's like a snowball just starting off down the hill. Um, this pain doesn't diminish as the years go on. It, it grows and my rage grew as years went on.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And, and, and, you know, you think you can just bury it, but it's, it's going to come out in destructive ways. And, uh, you know, my life just, you know, should have been filled with so much promise. And I just like squandered everything and, just sabotaged everything, every romantic relationship. So the high school years were a drunken blur.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Sports, I played basketball two years, quit the other year, got injured the other year, just gave up on sports.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Yeah, yeah, just like not being able to apply myself, just not having that internal fortitude to want to study, to want to excel at sports, just.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Oh, God, yeah. I mean, just, it was exhausting just living that dual life of having, you know, like, can't let mom see me at school. Like, you know, being goth, wearing goth clothes and, you know, having a frown on my face and, you know, looking all down and out. Got to be, you know... You know, Mr. Cheerful, you know, don't want my teachers to know, you know, that something's amiss with me.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Got to keep that smile cranked on, you know, same for my classmates, you know, and it's exhausting when you feel the complete opposite inside and you got to live that lie. Yeah.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Yeah, my father, you know, we were a middle-class family, you know? money. I don't recall ever being a real issue. My father was a salesman. My mother worked at the high school in the library. I had an older brother, older sister. On paper, everything looked well-adjusted. My father wasn't a regular drinker, but when he drank, he drank to get bombed. He got sober the last, when I was like 17.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
It was draining, man. It was exhausting. You know, like my whole life is, you know, I tell everybody I lived the most exhausting life. Just... become hyper vigilant like later on in life like it my life became pedal to the metal like there was no mindfulness and meditation and sitting calmly and deep breathing and uh yoga you know Fuck no, bro.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
It was like, we got to outrun this pain and we're going to go full steam ahead and we're going to ride this wave until it crashes. And, you know, let's see what happens.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
The problem with drugs and alcohol is they work.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Yeah, yeah. My father, you know, my father, my father found it in my room. He threatened to send me to military school, you know. And, you know, you and I talked, you know, before we started this, my father, rumors did come out finally about this guy. He worked at the jail as a lieutenant in the sheriff's department. Yeah.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And rumors came out about him taking newly released young male inmates home to mentor them and then molesting them at his house. And how this got out is these young guys would run out of his house in the middle of the night and be hitchhiking through little Stillwater. I mean, Stillwater is exactly what it sounds like. It's, you know, a one-horse town.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
and people would pick them up you know hitchhiking was normal you know in 70s 80s 90s you know now it's like not a big thing and when people would pick them up you know they would say like this guy dennis just you know he offered me to get back on my feet and help me and you know i woke up in the middle of the night he's on top of me trying me and trying to molest me and
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And that spread like wildfire through Stillwater. And my father caught wind of this. And he sat me down one day and he said, son, I want to ask you a question. He said, I'm hearing some disturbing rumors about Dennis taking inmates home from the jail and trying to molest them or molesting them. Has he ever touched you? And I just couldn't bring myself to say it.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
I'm like, no, dad, he's never touched me. He's like, all right. And, uh, like a year or so later, like when I was around 15, a classmate of mine who had been in the scouts with me from Stillwater, um, His mother worked as a waitress at the local Dunkin' Donuts, and my father was in there having a coffee one day, and she's telling my father how her son, Michael, was repeatedly by Dennis.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And my father came home from that, and... sat me down again. And this time he said, son, I want to ask you something. And I just want you to know before you answer, you'll never have to go to the police. You'll never have to testify in court. I will handle this myself. And he told me the story about what the mother said about Michael. And he goes, just tell me if Dennis has ever touched you.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And, you know, I'll take care of Dennis myself. So, you know, in my mind, you know, my father's saying, I'll go kill Dennis. You know, that's how I took it. And, you know, that's a lot of pressure. Like over the next few weeks, you know, like I said no again to him. And then it just like was...
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
eating at me you know whether to tell him and I'm like man what if you know Dennis kills my dad you know my dad goes to get him and my dad ends up getting killed and that's on me or my dad has to go to prison that's on me and I just I just kept quiet about it what is that emotion when you're saying no but your mind is saying yes and
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Yeah, like my mind's screaming, like, let's tell him, let's tell him, let's tell him. Let's be done with this shit. And then the words just come out, no, dad.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Yeah, that fear's been instilled in you. It's also like, do you... you know, like, do you want to be known as the damaged boy now? You know, like in college, I met the love of my life and, and like, she would see me get lost in my thoughts and, And, you know, ask me like, where did you just go in your mind?
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And I'd make it out like she was nuts, you know, because I want to be, you know, the cool party animal, hot, sexy boyfriend, not the broken, wounded, you know, damaged boyfriend. You know, the two didn't mesh in my mind.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Yeah. Just like, eh, there's no need to tell her about what happened. You know, there's no need to tell my dad, you know, I don't want to, I don't want to open up this Pandora's box. Um, and it's the worst, you know, like my mind told me down at the river at 12 after that, like, we are not going to talk about this.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Yeah. And like, I, I let my guard down with that essay I wrote and, uh, You know, and that was it, you know.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Yeah. I've said how my dad blew it when he found the weed. He found a pipe, papers, and a bag of weed in my room at 12 and threatened to send me to military school. I already investigated a school down by Philadelphia and this shit ends right now or else your ass is going to be sent off to military school. Like, instead, like, this is your opportunity, dude.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
So the last, I don't know, whatever, 15 years of his life or so, he was sober. And would he get angry? Nah, nah, I wasn't an angry drunk. Just getting bombed, man.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Like, to sit me down and have a heart-to-heart, like, son, why at 12 years old are you smoking this crap? Like, what's going on in your world, you know, that you feel you need to do this? You know, like, talk to me. Instead, it was the, you know, the hard line approach. You know, he's like, I went through this shit with your brother, right? And I'm not going through it with you.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Yeah, I mean, that's... You know, everybody asks me, how do you get a kid to open up? You know, and it's just... It's just... Trust and lines of communication and gentleness... You know, because if you suspect that kids, something's happened, they've experienced horror, right? And like, you just can't say, tell me, tell me what happened.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
So yeah, it's just, it takes patience. You know, might I just have to say like, I am always here for you. You know, when you're ready, if something has happened, you can come to me anytime. There's not going to be any judgment. There's not going to be any freaking out. I love you. I want to help you.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Let's talk, you know, instead of, instead of the hard line approach, you got to tell me what happened and I'm going to go kill the guy. Yeah, of course. It's just not going to, it's like I said, it was just too, that was too much on me. Like after what I've already been.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Well, that's what they do nowadays. You know, like. A kid back in the 70s or 80s would get taken into a police barracks, you know, the state police barracks or the local town cop, you know, into usually a windowless room, concrete and a desk and a detective, you know, probably with a cigarette dangling out of his mouth. So, you know, what happened to you, kid?
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
You know, nowadays they take you to... Like in our town is Ginny's house. It's for abused children and it's a therapeutic setup and it's, you know, light tone colors and toys and games and they, you know, get the kids comfortable in there and it's a calming place to get them to open up about what happened. Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, that's the approach you got to take.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Am I going to get arrested for what? Yeah, right. I mean, that's... You get pulled over by a cop for speeding, your heart starts racing out of your heart or out of your chest.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Yeah, just like, you know, dealing with that. You know, like I said, it wasn't on a daily basis. Maybe a weekend basis. So, you know... And it really wasn't until I was, you know, a little older that you would recognize it and see it. And then my brother was a big... You know, my brother was six years older than me. He was a big partier.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
you know, you ask about hate and rage, you know, you're, you're hating yourself, you know, and then the rage starts, you know, to build over the years. Um,
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I went to Northeastern University up in Boston, and I did great in school. I had school down to a science where I could study for three, four days, and I could be a blackout drunk for three, four days. And I tried cocaine. This was in the 80s. Tried cocaine in college. Absolutely nothing. loved it.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Like just instantly took away all that self-loathing and feeling weak and insecure. Um, and just made me feel outgoing and confident and strong and powerful. Um, met the love of my life back then. Uh, you know, Northeastern's a five-year school. We dated, you know, off and on for the five years and then afterwards. And, uh, She wanted to start our lives and get married and start a family.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And I could have sex. All I wanted, I could say I love you, but intimacy, getting married and being intimate and living together and being intimate, I just couldn't do it. And I told her I couldn't do it. And she's just like, why? We've been together for so long. What are we doing here? And I just told her I just can't get married. And she's like, I got to go in a different direction then.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
I was like, all right. And, you know, that's the trickle-down effect of what this animal did to me, you know? Had I gotten together with her, though, you know, like, it would have just been a train wreck, you know? I would have made her life hell, you know? So she haunted me for 30 years, you know?
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Yeah, it was just, yeah, it wasn't like I've been abused. I can't have it. That's not going on. What's going on is, oh my God, I'm suffocating. I'm starting to have a panic attack. I can't breathe. I'm drowning. The answer is no. Get away. No, I got to get out of here. So that was the experience.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Yeah, there was nothing back then. There was no organizations back then. I just mentioned Ginny's house in my town. There was nothing back then. Back then, you went to a state police barracks or a local cop shop. There was no organizations. The cops were the only one. This guy was a law enforcement officer. He was a lieutenant. So that avenue was cut off.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
So there, you know, I tell people nowadays, I'm like, we are so lucky nowadays, like with the internet, like you can go on and connect with somebody around the world, you know, have an AA meeting around the world or connect with abuse victims around the world, you know, back then.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And I didn't know at the time, but he had... You know, our abuser was his scout leader, which then became, you know, my scout leader. And that was his... He used the Boy Scouts. He used that dam area at the lake as like trolling grounds. And this guy on paper, he was a lieutenant in the sheriff's department. He was a member of the Kiwanis Club.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Back when our parents and our grandparents and their parents, whatever trauma they had, they just had to suck it up and grab a bottle of vodka and get through it. Therapy was just for the elites in New York City back then. Therapy wasn't for the average Joe.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
drugs alcohol and a search for a thrill you could say you know you you look for the quick fix yeah and uh and and that was like as soon as you feel uncomfortable you gotta fix it you know like there is uh no delaying gratification you know for for the greater good down the road it's like i need gratification right now immediately and uh
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And that's what I became, just looking like a junkie, looking for gratification, instant gratification anytime I felt uncomfortable.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
What would that feel like? That's what I say. You become hypervigilant. You just become on the run, on the go. There was no sitting feeling uncomfortable.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Yeah. Yeah. You're running from that pain. Like you're constantly trying to stay one step ahead of it. You know, whether it's from drugs and alcohol, whether it's from sex, you know, like my twenties were just a blur of sex, like just one night stands. Like I'll prove that I'm a man. I'll get rid of this insecurity.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Just if I sleep with enough women, this insecurity, this self-loathing will go away. So I was just a revolving door in my 20s. And it left me like, that's adding more trauma because I'm hurting all sorts of women along the way just to gratify myself in their catching feelings for me. And I'm just like, phew, phew, phew.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And, uh, you know, that was my whole twenties into my thirties, you know, just doing that, you know, like drugs, drugs weren't a big thing in my twenties. Um, you know, if, if, if we went out, you know, and I'm just saying sporadically once in a blue moon and somebody is like, well, let's, you know, let's get some Coke and get a bag of Coke for a night going out. That would be a rarity, you know?
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Um, I went years without doing cocaine in my 20s. Just sex though, sex and drinking. Those were my drugs then.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I mean, I was going through jobs. I got out of college. My father put up money for me to become a partner in a tire retreading shop. My brother was in the tire business. My father was a salesman for Goodyear. He thought, oh, let's have all three sons in the tire industry. And so he put up money.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
You know, so here I got this great education and went and became a partner in a tire shop with a retired trooper friend of my dad's. And it just imploded, you know, like within three years it was done. Like just my father's relationship with this best friend fell apart. I was stuck in the middle. And I just like after I was like a pawn between the two of them. And I was just like, F this.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And I left. Yeah. and uh i got a job on wall street i got uh i was working on wall street living out in jersey still commuting in i did that for a couple years uh walked away from that um i worked for a buddy in uh My grandfather had died. My grandmother had gotten murdered, which is a whole thing we can go into. And each grandchild inherited some money.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And I took my money to buy a fixer-upper house. And my buddy was in construction. So I started working with him in construction to learn how to redo the house. And he and I worked on it. And when we fixed it up, then I went to work for him for a couple of years doing construction. And then And then blew that off after a while.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Feeling trapped. And trapped is how I felt at his house.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
I was an animal in a snare when I would go to his house and I would feel trapped in relationships. You know, like I was the greatest boyfriend for three months. Like you would have a blast for those three months, but then you'd be like, you know, it's just overwhelming after a while. Like it's, you know, a nonstop party and sex fest. It's like, you know, it would start off great.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Kiwanis is for the betterment of children in the community. Yeah. He was an honorary member of Boys Town. Boys Town, I think, is Nebraska maybe. And they've had all sorts of pedophile problems at Boys Town. He's an honorary member. He was a chaplain in the American Legion.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And then it would be like, Can we do something normal? And, you know, can we start like, you know, be like, see ya, you know?
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And the same thing too. Like, I don't want to be trapped in a job. I'm not, I'm never going to feel trapped again, you know? So it was always just cutting and running, cutting and running.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
You'll take the money you inherited and start flipping houses left and right. Yeah.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Yeah. So like... And my life has been a nonstop trauma. It's not just the trauma from that. I mentioned my brother and my next door neighbor. At 17, when I'm 17, my next door neighbor puts a shotgun in his mouth and blows his head off next door, having been in the scouts with this guy. In my early 20s, my grandfather died when I was a senior in high school.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
They had a house right on the water down in Naples, Florida. Beautiful place. My grandmother, my father and his sister, my aunt tried to get her to move into a retirement community. She's like, are you nuts? She's like, this is paradise. Why would I move out of here? Some guy breaks into their house. She's 80 years old, ties her up, tortures her or kills her.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
He was in a gay love affair with her next door neighbor and the guy broke up with him and he went to go kill her, kill him and he wasn't home. And for whatever bizarre, insane reason, he's like, I'll go next door and I'll kill the old lady next door. And, uh... The cops, I remember my father saying the cops don't want to tell all that she went through in the last minutes of her life.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
They just said, let's just say he tortured her. She was bound, tortured, and killed is how they summed it up. You guys don't need to know any more than that.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Yeah, he stole her car. He had walked to the guy's house to kill him. And then, like an idiot, stole her car. And that's how they caught him. And he got sentenced to life in Florida prison.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Yeah. So, like, that was a whole triggering event for me as well as, you know, bringing up, you know, my next door neighbor. You know, I'm 17. I got my own... and trauma I'm dealing with. And then he blows his head off. And I'm thinking, is that going to be my destiny? Is that what's going to wait for me down the road? Am I going to get to that point?
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
No. I would say haunted me. It haunted me throughout my life, would be the word.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Here you are, a pedophile, a predator, and you're the chaplain giving the prayer at the start of each session in the American Legion. Yeah, of course. Yeah. And just if you Google Dennis Pegg obituary, like his family in the obituary listed like 25 organizations he was a part of and the police were all like, those are all his hunting grounds. You know, he's a member of the Autobahn Society.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Yeah, like hearing my grandmother's been murdered, you know, and my friend murders himself and... You know, Jeff, my next door neighbor is like a brother to me, you know, with the three of us, you know, like they were the older big, big brothers, but he was literally like a brother. And, uh, you know, so that was devastating to me. Jeff, Jeff's death really haunted me. Um, yeah.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
It was always, you know, like, let's suck it up there, big boy, and put our shoes on and go about our business, you know?
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
I won't really know, but my brother was a hard charging guy his whole life. But he was able to start a business, become very successful with his tire automotive center, get married, have a family. And one of my therapists asked me, Clark, in your 20s and 30s, did you focus on the abuse Or was it, you know, like in the peripheral vision of your mind?
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And I thought, and I'm like, you know, like I would have these triggering events that would like send me into a slide and into a depression. But I'm not necessarily equating my grandmother's murder to Dennis Peck. I did equate Jeff's suicide to Dennis. And that... You asked about the rage. That's when the rage started. Like, I just became seething. I equated Dennis killed Jeff.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And that is where my... Up to that point, it was all just self-hatred. Jeff's death started the rage towards Dennis. That's when it flipped for me.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Yeah, like... Occasionally, like I remember like maybe home from college and going out to a bar with my friends and he happened to be in the bar and I drove and we had just gotten our beer and I turn and I see Dennis there and he's like,
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. Like, they have no shame, these predators. Like, no shame at all. And I chug my beer and I'm like to my friends, we got to go. Let's get out of here. They're like, we just got here. I'm like, there's no women here. We're going to go hit another bar where there's women. I'm driving. You can either stay or we're going. You know, like, very forceful. Like, let's rock and roll.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Like, I'm not staying here. They're like, all right, whatever, bro. And, you know, they chugged their beer and they're like, you know, busting me like, what the fuck, dude? What the hell? And like, got to get out of there. I dated a girl in my late 30s and 40s, and I don't even recall this, but we were headed to our friend's house together. for a party.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And she said, we were at a stop sign and Dennis Pegg came and made the left to come up alongside up the road by us. And I just went nuts and started spitting and punching the steering wheel and cursing. And she's like, what are you doing? I'm like, Dennis. And she's like, Dennis who? And I'm like, Pegg. And she's like, what about him? I'm like, he's a scumbag. And he just went by.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
She's like, all right, all right, calm down. And she, you know, says I proceeded to get bombed that night. And, you know, she had to drive me home and stuff, you know, but I don't recall that.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Yeah, yeah, I mean, you know, it's like ripping the Band-Aid off and, you know, that wound is there, you know, like I'm keeping a Band-Aid on everything. Um, you know, but I've never addressed that wound.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Yeah. I was when I was younger. Yeah. That's enough. You know, like I lit everything, you know, like everything on fire. I lit our house on fire. I lit the leaves on fire where like the whole backyard was on fire.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
This is your opportunity, dude. So my advice would be open up lines of communication, you know. No matter how upset or disappointed you are with your child over their destructive behavior, there's a reason for it. Find out what that reason is.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
I've got so many parents that reached out to me about their kids, you know, in the Autobahn Society, you know, who were under his care. And it's just, it's a long laundry list of hunting grounds for him. He was a professional hunter of children, man.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
I didn't know anything about, I never put two and two together until, I mean, you know, this is going to get us a little ahead. But again, when I was in prison, I got therapy for the first time and I was in a group therapy class. And our therapist said, how many of you have ever played with fire when you were younger? Every hand went up. What is that?
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And she's like, how many of you have ever shoplifted? Every hand went up. And she's like, those are signs of childhood abuse.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
I did... I've looked at it a couple times over the years. I can't, like, I would be sort of making it up.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Maybe it's a control thing. Like you're, you know, like you're, you're, You're in control of this.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
He's investing years into every kid. I wasn't the only one down at the lake, but he's... giving beer to at nine years old. You know, he's a lieutenant in the sheriff's department. He's giving beer to us.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Uh, yeah. Like I, I bought a Harley, um, you know, you know, 31, 32, let's say somewhere around there. Um, that's awesome. What Harley? Uh, uh, heritage soft, soft tail. Hell yeah. And, uh, I started riding with a bunch of hard partying guys and, uh,
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Oh, you know, one of the, one of the guys was a big Coke doer and he and I, you know, instantly bonded and, uh, just, uh, you know, Coke became a, like, you know, going to strip bars on the Harleys doing Coke, uh, that became like a normal, you know, a normal thing, you know, uh, you know, for a lot of years. Um,
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
I dated – I got hooked up with a girl I dated off and on for a couple of years, living with her. She was a big coke doer. Yeah. I had never tried ecstasy. She's like, have you ever done ecstasy? I'm like, no. She's like, Mr. Hard partying biker boy has never done ecstasy. He's like, we're going to change that. You know, so then we're buying hundreds of ecstasy tablets at a time.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
You know, nine years old. Think how little a nine-year-old is.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
We're buying ounces of Coke at a time. You know, like all our friends party. We might as well get extra ecstasy. So we have it for everybody. I'm like, that's a great idea. So it's always there. When you got a suitcase in your basement with three, four ounces of Coke in it always, it's just that you can hear it calling you. It's like, come down and do a bump.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
So yeah, so those years quickly became a blur. Yeah.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Yeah. Well, your boundaries get ripped from you. So then you don't even know what a boundary means. You know, like I would say I had boundaries, but I blew through every boundary I set for myself, you know, over the years. All right, cocaine is a weekend drug only. And then you're doing coke every day of the week. So that boundary just got shot to hell.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Drinking is only if you're going out with the guys or on the weekends with your girl and the guys. And most definitely never before work. And then you're drinking before work. You know, just to get yourself going in the morning. Heroin is only for people on Skid Row and Kensington Avenue in Philly and in New York City. You know, a well-educated middle class guy will absolutely not do heroin.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And I'm doing heroin. Yeah. You know, like, so just nothing, nothing stuck. I couldn't, I couldn't set a boundary that I could live within. Like it just, they were meaningless to me.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
You know, cause if, if I felt uncomfortable, like we got to fix this uncomfortable feeling. And you know, like I went, I was never arrested. I had no criminal charges, you know, throughout my life. But I was right there. I was right on the edge. I was importing steroids, doing steroids in my 30s. And Homeland Security confiscates a package of them. And I get this threatening letter.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
You basically get a get-out-of-jail-free card, one get-out-of-jail-free card. I started like after all the women, nonstop women in my 20s, I started gambling, like going to the casinos like every weekend. That became my new coping mechanism. You know, like when you would step through the doors of the casino and the sounds and the cock Cocktail waitresses. Cigarettes.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And the win or loss, the adrenaline flowing, all your shit just dissipates, just goes away as soon as you would step into that environment. So that was like, that felt like home to me. And, you know, so I'm doing that for years. You know, that became years of like gambling. Yeah. And that's how I bought my Harley. Like, you know, I came home, you know, like with $50,000.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
My earliest recollection is like, you know, five, six years old.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
I stopped at a Harley Davidson dealership. I handed the guy $22,000 cash and picked up a Harley a couple days later. Wow. I'm making $700 a week in the tire business. You know, like I eventually, after the construction thing, I'm doing nothing. I'm unemployed for six months. And my brother comes to me when I was around 30 and says, you know, like... uh, you're not doing anything.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
He goes, you want to open up a retread shop again? He's like, you and I, he goes, I got my retail store and I'm thinking about a retread shop. And you know, you and I will, we'll do that. I'm like, I had nothing else going on. I'm unemployed. I'm like, fuck it. Let's do it. You know? So, uh, I'm making $700 a week, and yet I'm winning and losing tens of thousands of dollars.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
I went on this unbelievable run in the casinos. And I don't say this to brag, just like... I just was like fearless when I bet. And, uh, I, I had a suitcase with hundreds of thousands of dollars in it. Uh, the casinos, uh, like my biggest win was I, I won 152,000 and I had been up way over that. And then I lost, lost, lost. And then I had 152. I'm like, you know, all right, I'm out.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
No, I had a really crappy start to life. I was born with a hole in my heart and I was being monitored for open heart surgery. And I was always getting sick, like pneumonia or bronchitis. And I was always in the hospital. I remember being in those oxygen tents in the hospital and So, you know, and that's traumatic in itself when, you know, you're constantly in the hospital.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
But I was up, you know, quarter of a million. Um, And then you're getting all the perks. I'm going to the suite at Giants Stadium. They're like, you want to go see the Giants play the Eagles down in Philly? We'll send a limo up to you. You know, you don't even have to gamble. Like, I'm like, all right, cool. You know, I'm going out to Vegas. You know, they're paying for my airfare out to Vegas.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
I had a convention in Palm Springs. You know, they're like, I will fly you, you know, from Vegas out to Palm Springs. Suites. Biles of Kettle 1, Dom Perignon, just whatever you want. They would give me shopping sprees in the casinos, like the stores. Every piece of clothing I had back then had an insignia of a casino on it. It's just like all my clothing came from casinos.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Money was meaningless to me. It was just a tool for me to use. to not deal with my shit. Like I had no respect for money and thus why it would come and go. And then I got to the point where I couldn't even wait for the weekends to go gamble. Cause you got a five day stretch where your pain is like rearing its ugly head and you're just feeling uncomfortable.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
So it's like, I start sports betting with the mop so I can do that every day of the week. And within six months, my hundreds of thousands are gone. I had two stock things that I had opened up with money. I also got investigated by the IRS criminal bureau for money laundering for all the cash I was putting into my account. um, you know, a full audit on that.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Um, just, you know, like my life is like, just, it's just, it's, it's a train wreck.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Yeah. And, uh, you know, so I, I, I'm bankrupt in six months, sports betting with the mob and I'm in debt to them for $77,000.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And I start getting the phone calls, you know, like, your life's in danger, bro. You're not walking away from this. And then they want me to go rob a bank. You are better off to go rob a bank. And if you get caught, you do 10 years, big whoop. We're going to kill you if you don't pay us. This is what I'm dealing with on a regular basis. And I
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
I happen to be at my brother's tire shop, not the retread shop, his retail store. And his store manager goes, hey, Clark, you got a phone call on line one. I'm like, who the hell's calling me over here? He's like, I don't know. So I pick it up and the guy goes, this is special agent, blah, blah, blah, with the FBI.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
He goes, Mr. Fredericks, I need to meet you at your other store on Thursday at two o'clock. And I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. What's this about? I can't discuss anything on the phone, Mr. Fredericks. Please be at your Newton store Thursday at two o'clock. And he hangs up the phone. And I'm like- I'm partying, and I'm like, the FBI isn't going to get involved for buying some Coke.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
I'm not doing kilos or anything. I'm not putting two to two together with the mob. And the guy shows up and tells me, we have a confidential informant inside one of the major crime families. And that informant has relayed to us that there's a hit put on in your life for gambling debt. And we are legally obligated to notify you. I was just like, great. Just fucking great. Yeah.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
So when I say I skirted, I was never right on the edge.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
I take calls for months. Threats, death threats. They call my father. Tell him, you know, your son's life's in danger. You better pony up for him. I had already gone to my family. I didn't know what to do. So I had called Gamblers Anonymous. And I told the lady on the phone how much I was into the mob and that they're threatening my life. I wasn't going to go to the cops.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And then I spent a month at Mount Sinai Hospital in New York City getting my open heart surgery. And, you know, the doctors came to my parents when I was six and said his hole has grown to the size of a half dollar and we have six month window to operate them. And this was like a life, and this was 1971 when I was six. And this was a life or death situation. And I survived it. And...
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
That's not the type of dude I was. I didn't know what to do. So I called Gamblers Anonymous. And she had the head, the director, call me back. She's like, I'm going to have Ed Looney call you back. She had Ed Looney call me back. And he's like, you're going to meet me at a meeting tomorrow night. And there's a bunch of hardcore, some are ex-mob guys, big gamblers.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And I'll meet you there and we'll go over your story with them and devise a plan. Like the plan was to offer a payment plan, a monthly payment plan. And they're like, they're going to laugh at it. They're going to scream. But you got to stick to your guns. And that's what I did. And they're like, you're fucking kidding, bro. Like, you know, like... I can only afford like 500 a month.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And they're like, that's not even going to cover the juice that we're wrapping, racking on to your debt. Like you're not even covering the juice. The guy's like, if I go to my boss and tell him you're going to pay $500 on 77,000, he goes, you're going to put my life in danger. I can't even go tell him that. And, uh, So this went on and on and on.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
You know, you know, the FBI is like, you know, this isn't going to go away. You know, things are going to get worse. Here's my card. You know, you need our help. And one day I get a phone call and the guy just says, you're a fucking dead man and hangs up the phone. And I'm like, all right. So I'm constantly just looking over my shoulder. I got my shotgun in my truck. I got a bat in my office.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Just living on edge constantly. And I never got another phone call. And Nothing ever happened. And the guys in that gamblers meeting, what they said, the only thing that seems plausible is that the FBI's informant probably worked in the boiler room of the gambling. And the guys in the... Because I was such a heavy better, you know, like they gave me no limit.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
So I could bet as much as I wanted, you know. And they said, when you're a better like that, they'll keep, you know, the house always has the odds. So they'll keep your bets to themselves and not turn it into the bosses, not put it in the book. So they're not killers themselves. They're just working in the boiler room.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Like the boss has the killers and they can't go to the boss about you because they probably weren't turning in your bets.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
They were skimming that. So they can only push you so far unless they want to try to do something themselves, but they're not usually that type of person. And it just stopped. And whether these guys got killed, whether they got arrested, what happened, you know, that was 25 years ago. And after like six months of just daily, weekly calls, threats, that last phone call, you're a dead man, click.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
I never heard anything again. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Now we talk about feeling trapped, right? Those, those, those were like the worst years of my life. Like that period.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Oh yeah. Yeah. Cause they, they, they, they made comments. They were going to send guys up to me, you know?
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
You know, like, I didn't want to die, but I just got to the point of, fuck, whatever, man. It's just like, whatever, you know, whatever. My life is shit anyway. It's been shit since I was a kid. So whatever, you know, it's like whatever they're going to fucking do, whatever, man. You know, that's sort of the mindset you adopt.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Yeah. You know, I got buddies who are hell's angels, you know, I'm selling drugs to them, you know. In this, you know, my late 30s, I hurt my back at work and I got prescribed Vicodin. Never had a pain pill in my life and just instantly fell in love with those things. And, you know, went blue through 30 of them in a couple of days, called the doctor back up. Those things worked great.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
I feel great. Then he's like, that was a little quick. I go, you got to get me more doc. And he goes, I'll give you 10 more. That's it. And that just like, that was unacceptable. So then I just start buying pills off the street and thus begins a multi-year pain pill addiction, you know? So I got, I, it's just going from one thing to another, to another, to another, you know? And, uh,
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
I have keloid condition where your scars raised up and this animal like used this life or death scar, which signified life or death for me as his way to like start touching me. Like I've never seen a scar like that. Can I touch it? So my parents were so proud of me for surviving this surgery, they would have me lift my shirt and all their friends would have to give me a quarter.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
we go into my forties and I, you know, like I didn't know I suffered from PTSD, you know, from what happened to me as a kid and, uh, something triggers my PTSD and I fall into this deep depression. And, uh, you know, it's just like, just like this, like it felt like a thick mattress on me, just holding me down. And it's just like, you can't get out of this fog. It's just this thick, heavy fog.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
That's just, And I would literally have to talk to myself like a baby to get out of bed in the morning. Come on, Clark. Swing your legs out of bed. You can do it. Now stand up. Come on. Walk to the bathroom. Come on. And, you know, that's when I started drinking before work. You know, I mentioned that earlier. Like, I don't know how to, like, I have no healthy coping mechanisms. Mm-hmm.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
So I'm just like, I'm just trying to figure it out on my own. Like, I am literally depressed to the point of being immobile. Like, all right, let's have a drink in the morning just to try to get me going. And then it was... let's just do a couple bumps during the day just to keep me energized and going. Yeah.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And, and it's just, you know, spiraled and I got my pain pill addiction and, you know, I was like a squirrel gathering nuts. I'd have a drawer of 500 pain pills and still feel like, Ooh, that's only two weeks worth, you know, like, you know, we, we gotta, we gotta get, you know, more than that, you know? And, and,
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
I run out, I get low on pain pills and somebody I go to says, I don't even know why you're fucking with those pain pills to begin with. He goes, I got some packets of dope. He goes, don't kid yourself. You're, you're, you're doing dope. He goes, it's pharmaceutical dope, but it's dope.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
He goes, you might as well just do the real thing for $5 a packet instead of, you know, what you're paying for pills. And I was just like, All right, bug it. Give me some packets. Unless I start doing heroin. Right. So it's just one thing after another snowballs into another. And we're picking up steam too. Things are not getting better, like I said.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Yeah. There's something driving me, though. You know, just uncomfortable. Yeah. anxious, depressed, panic attack, we got to solve that immediately. We got to get those feelings out of here. We are not going to let ourselves feel uncomfortable. I'm at the point now where one drug alone isn't enough to take away my shit.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Rock bottoms when I run into my abuser. It'd been at least 10 years since I've seen him. And take me through that day. I'm in a quick check deli. I don't know if you have quick checks around here, but I'm in a quick check getting a coffee and the door opens up and I just instinctively look up and it's my... And he sees me. He's like, hey, Clark, like yells out in the store.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And like, this guy's going to start making his way over to me to hug me, pat me on the back, whatever. And I just go into a panic attack, you know, like my mind's swirling, you know, my heart's racing. I'm sweaty. I can't breathe. Like my vision's like getting funny. And All of a sudden I hear a young boy say his nickname that he used to make me say to him when I was younger.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Like, Clark, show your scar. They called it a zipper, you know, because all the stitch marks actually looks like a zipper. And, you know, so I'm doing this little peep show for their friends. And one of their friends was this guy. And like three months after the surgery, I came in the house. It was the summer day. I had the surgery like around April. of 71.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And I see that boy's about the age he hit me at. And that was it. Like everything just like ripped open and I ran out of there. We shoulder bumped. I ran past him. We hit shoulders. He's like, hey, where are you going? And I got in my truck and I sped out of there and I pounded my steering wheel and I'm cursing and I'm spitting in my truck, yelling motherfucker over and over.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And that was just like everything unraveled after that. Going to work when I was depressed felt like climbing Mount Everest. And with a month after seeing... seeing him, I couldn't climb Mount Everest anymore. And I just left the family business with my brother, just walked away. Um, buying, buying grams of Coke no longer worked anymore. I'm buying ounces of Coke.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And I got Dennis Pegg on the forefront of my mind. And all I can think every day is that he's still abusing boys 30 years later. Still abusing boys 30 years later. And that just like haunted in me. And I spiraled downward for months and got to the point where I had to go confront him. And went to his house one night. I hadn't been back to that house since he, me.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Yeah. Yeah. He lived, he lived three minutes away from me, you know. I didn't know if he still lived there. And I assumed. So he had a long driveway, parked halfway down his driveway, ran up the driveway. His front door was open. His screen door was shut. There he is sitting there watching TV.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Yeah. I knew he was a gun nut. I took a knife with me. You can say whatever reason for taking the knife. Here's a guy who's been children for 40 years. He is the firearms instructor. Every cop, everybody in law enforcement, every year has to get recertified with a firearm. He's the firearm instructor for two counties, Morris County and Sussex. This guy had 36 guns in his house.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Swords, a dozen knives. If you've been kids for 40 years, wouldn't you have on every chair a holster? Wouldn't you have under every table a gun? You got to be like, I've pushed my luck. Something's going to happen eventually. So I was prepared to go into that house and get shot. Again, I'm not looking to die, but I just, it's, I just don't care.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
You know, I'm, I'm willing to put my life on the line right now. And I go up to his door. I rip his screen door open and I'm standing there in his doorway. It's like nine 30 at night. And, uh, And this is the part that gets me. But, you know, like we're trying to think that predators, pedophiles are normal, are human. They're not human. This guy isn't human.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And I came in to get a drink and watch TV for a minute. And he came to the front door. Everybody's out in the backyard. And, you know, he's like, hey, little buddy, come sit with me on the couch here. Where is everybody? I'm like, they're all out back. And after talking for a minute, he's like, hey, I got a quarter to see your scar. And I was like, okay.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
You're a 12-year-old boy and you're whispering in his ear just another minute so I can make sure I come, you know. And you're beating your dog in front of him to death to keep him silent. So people... view him as human. He's not, that's like, can you get more evil than that? That's evil. That's not a human. And this guy looks calmly over his shoulders.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
I'm standing in his doorway and goes, Hey, how are you? And it just seemed like the most incredible thing to say at that moment. Like, get down on your knees and be like, dude, I am so sorry. I know why you're here. I am sorry for what happened. I'm sorry for what I did to you. I always thought you or somebody else would show up. Let's talk. Please forgive me. I'm sick. I need help.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Whatever it may be. No, just, hey, how are you? That like set me off. Like, Whether I had a plan of action or not, when he said that, I had a plan of action. I go, hey, how am I, motherfucker? Let me show you how the fuck I am. And that face I kept behind closed doors, the face of... The smile that I showed the world was gone. The face behind closed doors was out.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
He's seeing the face he made of rage and hate and violence that he instilled in me. He's seeing that on my face. He's the first one to see it. And I raced across his living room. We got into a violent fight. I'm stabbing at him. He's punching me. At one point, I put a knife right through my hand. I sever all the ligaments and tendons in my hand.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And the fight really only lasted a couple minutes, two, three minutes. He slipped in the blood that was both of ours on the floor. And he was sort of like up against a wall. And I knelt down in front of him. And I looked him in the eye. And I said, it's not so fun with little boys now, is it, Dennis? And I slid a stroke. And that was it. And... You know...
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
I would say I've had two people who have reached out to me over the years, one female, one male, who said they were abused and said they would never think of doing what I did. Whether they were actual abuse victims or not, I don't know. Every other abuse victim. has reached out to me and said, you did exactly what I've dreamt of.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
He gives me the quarter and I lift my shirt. And he's like, I've never seen a scar so raised up like yours. How about I give you a dollar and you let me touch it? And next to my father, this is who I respected the most. You know, he wore his gun. He always had his badge and lieutenant in the sheriff's department.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And, you know, you can look at their profile on Facebook or Instagram and see if they're liberal or see if they're Republican. And it doesn't matter if they're male, female, Republican, Democrat, you did exactly what I've dreamt of doing to my abuser. Because the horror of what they put you through is so traumatic. The only thing your mind can think to do to even to score is to kill him.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
But you don't heal from abuse. You don't heal from trauma by adding more trauma to your system. That's not how you heal. I stopped an evil piece of shit, not a human, an evil piece of shit from ever harming another child. Is that a good thing? Yes. Did it in any way heal me? Absolutely not. You know, like...
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
So, like, and I've had so many people who have, like, sent me messages, I'm going to go do what you just did or what you have done. I'm going to go do the same. And I'm like, dude, like, don't do it. You know, like, I've been to prison. Like, prison's hell. Like, you're literally, you're literally, they win. They win. By dragging your life to the grave in shit.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
So, like, had I gotten a life sentence, Dennis Pegg won. He would have won. Like, he would have controlled me from age, you could say six when he first touched me, all the way to the grave. Like, you can't allow your abuser to control you to the grave. You can't. That's the sinful part of it. Like, you can't. You can't give these pieces of shit that much control. You can't.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And by killing them, that's what you do. They're controlling you to the grave by sitting in a prison cell for the rest of your life, being tortured every day in prison. Prison is hell, dude. And you just can't do that. Because your life does not have to be forfeited just because you were abused. It doesn't. You can get past it. You can heal from it. You got to address it.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
You can't keep it to yourself and think you're going to have a normal life. It's all going to come out. It's where midlife crisis has come from. All my therapists are like, my brother kept it at bay by building a business in a family, but it was there and it was just waiting to come out. I kept it at bay in my 20s by sleeping with women, in my 30s by gambling, riding Harleys, living fast.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
coke into my thirties and forties partying drugs and alcohol. I kept it at bay, but it was there. It was waiting and it's going to come out. So you got to address it. Like I am the face of, you have to address your pain. You know, like I've done what everybody says they want to do. And I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm here to say, that's not the way you heal. It's not going to, it's, it's not going to work.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And so I'm like, sure, you know, not thinking he's got any ill will about what he's going to do. And he's just rubbing up and down and touching my abdomen. Is your stomach sore from from the surgery? And I'm like, no. And and then this had to be our little secret. And he goes, we can't be friends if you can't keep a secret. This has to be between us. Don't tell your parents I gave you this dollar.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
I have my own podcast and I actually had the prosecutor in my case come on. And one of the questions I asked him, what could I have done different? And he said, statute of limitations had long run out. There's really, legally, there was nothing you could have done different, nothing. This guy had gotten out from under, A minimum of three cases brought against him by young boys.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
That one, the mother in the Dunkin' Donuts, her and her son filed charges. He would come, she worked the third shift. He would come and sit during her third shift, you know, midnight on, and threaten her life, threaten her son's life. You guys are gonna pull those charges or your son's dead. You're dead. And they eventually pulled their charges. Oh, what the fuck?
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Two other Boy Scouts went away on the jamborees. Like you mentioned, like, oh, I'm going to be nervous if my son joins the Scouts and goes on a weekend trip, you know. Two different Scouts at different times went on weekend jamborees with Peg and came home with hickeys all over their body. And their parents, like, saw them with their shirt off. Like, what are those marks?
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And then like it went down below their belt line. And a mother took her son to the state police, filed charges. The father came the next day, recanted those charges, said, I don't want my son labeled gay. The other child with the hickeys, the parents filed charges. And, you know, whether it was a week, two, three, four down the road, they said our son's too traumatized to testify.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
We're dropping the charges. So he got out of those charges. Another instance was the state police investigated a case, put together a dossier, took it to the prosecutor's office, and whether it got swept under the rug, whether they thought there wasn't enough evidence, nothing ever came of it. So that's four there. Yeah.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
He retired and became a park ranger. And I gave a I gave a speech at a rehab center. And it was like from 18-year-olds up to 70-year-olds. And this afterwards, you know, like everybody's coming up to shake my hand.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And this old guy comes up and he didn't tell me his name, but he said, I worked with Dennis Pegg up at Stokes Forest when he became a ranger after he retired from the sheriff's department. And... I went to the state police because he was renting cabins every weekend and bringing young boys to those cabins. And I just knew what was going on in those cabins.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And I went to the state police and said, you got to set up a camera. He rents the same cabin over and over and he's bringing young boys there with him. And they're like, we, we can't just go set up a camera. It's not how it works. He goes and nothing ever became of it. So, you know, like, um, My friend's wife works, you know, in the sheriff's department.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And she sat in on a lot of meetings on Dennis Pegg after I got arrested. And she said, you know, easily over 100, you know, victims, you know, just from all the various walks of life he was involved in.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
I'm like, I can keep a secret. And unfortunately, keeping secrets is what did me in with him. Pedophiles are stopped dead in their track. If you don't keep secrets, their whole thing is based on secrets. Right. Whether it's fear, intimidation, gifts, whatever it is. You know, a lot of our family members, like, you know, you'll rip our family apart if you tell what's going on.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Yeah, you know, it's just like a blind eye got turned, you know?
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Yeah, like as a Christmas gift when I was younger. And he taught me how to... He bought me a stone set, you know, oil stone set to sharpen. And... Oh, I'm sorry. He didn't give me the knife. He gave me the sharpening set. He gave my brother a knife and it's engraved, you know, like, you know, 2J, you know, from Dennis.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
So he taught, I had my same hunting knife from being a young kid that he taught me to sharpen and I kept it razor sharp throughout my whole life. So that's one thing he did good was taught me how to sharpen my knife properly.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
You know, that's why I try to tell people, like, everybody's, you know, people say, you know, did all your problems just dissipate? And I'm like, no. Like, no. Like, I instantly said, I'm fucked. You know, because my hand is literally gushing blood. I'm covered in blood. I knew this knife wound was going to be my downfalls.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
You can't just walk into a hospital and not expect the cops to call the hospital a couple days down the road as they're investigating a murder and be like, did you have anybody come in with any odd wounds? So I just knew that was going to be my downfall. But no, like I didn't, it wasn't, you know, and again, like people who want to contemplate killing their abuser, it is soul hurting.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
it hurts your soul to go do what I did. It's, it's not therapeutic. You know, like there's, there's nothing cleansing. It's not healthy. Uh, it was brutal. It was gory. It was bloody. It was violent. It was a fight to death. Um, and it hurts. It hurts. It hurts. It literally hurts your soul. It's just, uh,
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
I leave and I call the girl I was dating at the time to come over. I call my buddy to come over and say goodbye to them. And my mother had just gotten back from Florida and I sent my buddy up. It's like midnight. I'm like, go get my mother. I'm like, I just took care of Dennis Pegg so he could never hurt another kid. And I couldn't even tell her that night that he had done anything to me.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And she's like, what do you mean you took care of Dennis Pegg? I'm like, let's not play games. We know what he's all about. We know that he drove Jeff to commit suicide. Look at Jay's life. I go... I took care of him so he could never harm another child. And she's like, why, why you? And I just, somebody had to mom. I couldn't, I'm like, couldn't still, I still am locked in silence.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Like, like couldn't tell her. And, uh, I was arrested the next day, you know, uh, you know, house was surrounded.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
You know, like, you know, your mother will be out in the street. You know, you kids will be living in a foster home. Right. You know, so... Yeah, the secret component is... That's a main thing.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
That's, you know, it's a long drawn out thing. Uh, my mother told my sister, my sister's like, we got to do a wellbeing check. She had a wellbeing check done. Domino's start falling into place. You know, like maybe Clark's all fucked up on drugs and just talking out of his ass. And my mother's like, he's got a wound that's, you know, severe. And all right. So maybe he did have a,
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
an attack with Dennis, maybe Dennis is still alive and we can save Clark's life from spending life in prison by getting to Dennis before he dies.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Not instantly, but, you know, like pretty soon after, you know, like... Pretty soon after. And I woke up and it just hit me. I'm lying in bed. I'm like, what the fuck have you done, dude? Like, holy shit, man. Your life is done. It's over. This is it. Life is kaput. And I was like, I allowed that. By not addressing that pain, it took me straight to shit. And...
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
That's why you got to tell your eight-month-old, you know, when your child gets a little older, you know, If anybody tells you, any adult tells you to keep a secret, you got to let us know immediately. Yeah. Because there's no reason for an adult to have a child keeping a secret.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
It's just like in my mind, my mind said, we can come up with something to get us out of this. Let's just get some drugs and alcohol in our system. So I had a whole bunch of Xanax there. I poured some Xanax out. I had a half of a vodka drink that I made when I went to bed that night. And I put my finger in, swirled it up and took a bunch of Xanax and drank that. And
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And I got up and went to the bathroom and brushed my teeth. And I went out and I wasn't even paying attention to the windows. I went right to the kitchen, to the refrigerator, and I poured a glass of wine. And I look out the window with my wine and I'm like, what the fuck is going on? The street was... There was...
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
a dozen minimum cop cars out there and there's cops behind trees and rocks and, uh, the shed we had out back and just everywhere, you know, guns out. And I'm like, and I'm, you know, like that feeling like, like, wow, it's over already before I can even like contemplate some sort of stupid idea, you know, whether to go kill myself or whatever it would be like, it's, it's already done.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And I'm like, So I chug that wine. I pour another. I chug half of that. I hear out of a loudspeaker, Mr. Fredericks, come out of your house with your hands up.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
and uh i chugged that uh in a little bit of irony uh you know we need some levity after all this heaviness uh i had seen a state trooper buddy of mine at a bar a high school friend who's a state trooper at a bar a couple months earlier and he's like hey you want some shirts and hats i was like yeah yeah so we went out to his car he gave me a couple state police shirts and a hat and uh
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
So I went in my room and I put my state police shirt on. I'm like, this should get me out of this. Once they see I'm one of them. He backs the blue. So I walked out and spread eagle on my lawn and taken away to the barracks.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Yeah, this guy, Howie Ryan, he turned out to be an angel. He was a lieutenant in the state police. And he ran the crime scene, sort of CSI team, crime scene investigation team. And he covered, I think it was, he covers four. Five, six of the northern counties, they break it up. So his CSI team was in charge of five counties. And he lived in Stillwater. I'd never met him, didn't know him.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And so he ran the CSI at Pegg's house. He comes in to the holding cell I'm in at the state police barracks. And first words out of his mouth is, you know, I got to apologize to you. And I'm like, what the hell are you apologizing to me for? And he's like, I've heard rumors about this scumbag for a long time. He's like, you know, I can't arrest somebody on rumors. I need victims. I need facts.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
He's like, so I was never able to stop him. I was never able to even like come close to arresting him. But I've heard rumors over the years. And I just want to apologize for never stopping him. And I apologize for whatever he went through. And I was like, all right. And at first, you know, I felt pretty good, you know.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And then he left the room and I was just like, I sat there like every fucking buddy knows about this guy. And yet I had to flush my life away to stop him. Like you can't give a pedophile 45-year reign of terror. Like how is that allowed? Like there has to be some way to stop him. other than a victim committing murder and flushing their life away. Yeah.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And then Howie, you know, he came back in again. They had to take pictures. They got to strip you, you know, look for, you know, tattoos, gang signs, whatever. You know, they got to do this whole thing. He comes in again and he's like, look, man, my detectives... are in another room with detectives from the prosecutor's office, and they're ready to interrogate you.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
He goes, your blood's all over that scene. He goes, this isn't a whodunit. He goes, I got you. He goes... but it doesn't mean your life's over. He goes, if you go into that room though, and just start running your mouth, he goes, your life could be over. You could fuck yourself and spend life in prison. He goes, so do not go into that room and open your mouth.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Request a lawyer and do not say another word. And he asked me three times, do you understand what I'm saying? I want you to exercise your fifth amendment rights and request a lawyer. And I go to him, but I don't even have a lawyer. He goes, I'm going to take care of that for you. On his cell phone, he called this big lawyer in our county, George Daggett. And George answered.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
He said, George, I need you to send over a retainer to the state police barracks, like immediately. He's like, for who? And he goes, Clark Fredericks. He goes, what'd he do? He goes, it's a murder case. He goes, okay. And, uh, George Daggett faxed over a thing. I am Clark Frederick's attorney. Do not interrogate him until I get there. I will be there. They took me into the room, how he went out.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
They, they took me in the room and I just said, uh, I'm not saying a thing without a lawyer. And they're like, you really want to handle this this way? You know, you're in a lot of trouble, you know, like, yeah. So my advice to anybody who gets arrested, they're not there to help you. Speaking can only harm you. They are not the judge.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
So when a cop says, you talk to me, it'll be good for your sentence, the judge gives a sentence. A cop doesn't give a sentence.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
No matter what you're there for, just keep your mouth shut and let it play out in the courts. Cops can't dictate what your sentence is going to be.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Yeah. And that guy didn't even turn out to be my attorney. I picked somebody else. But- And a bunch of guys in the barracks went after Howie. Like, what the fuck did you say to Frederick's in there? He goes, I didn't say anything other than he should exercise his Fifth Amendment rights. He goes, how the hell? They're like, how the hell did Daggett get involved in this already?
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
He's like, I don't know. That's who Frederick's requested. I placed a call to him. They're like, God, it stinks, Howie. He's like, go fuck yourself. He had two years left. He was the top dog in there. He was trooper of the year for solving a murder case one year. So the guy wasn't some fly-by-night rookie. That's awesome. So he's like, go fuck yourselves.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Right. That's another irony. And they put me into a suicide cell.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
So what are you thinking now that you're in Dennis Pegg's old jail? I am thinking I'm a dead man. I heard about him abusing inmates going back to 13 when my father said something. Nothing ever happened. So here it is all these years later. So I'm thinking he's a protected guy. Like nothing ever. Like every year I'm thinking like, you know, like, all right, they know he's molesting inmates.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
It can't be allowed that you can take inmates home to mentor them and molest them. Something's got to happen. Nothing would happen. I knew Mike Finari. My father told me Mike Finari had filed a lawsuit. I'm like, all right, Mike's lawsuit. We'll put him away. I didn't know about the Boy Scout Hickey things until later on. And then nothing ever came with Mike's lawsuit.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Everything back in the day was stranger danger. My parents harped on stranger danger because we're going down by the lake, by the dam, by ourselves at six, seven years old. And don't you dare get into anybody's car. They never said... Don't get into Dennis Pegg's car. Don't get into Dennis Pegg's truck, your brother's Boy Scout leader. Don't get into our good friend Dennis Pegg's car.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And I'm just like, he, he'll never be stopped. He's untouchable. So I'm thinking when I'm in that jail, these guys protected one of their own, even though he was a piece of shit and they're going to beat the hell out of me, whether I survived this beating or not, I have no idea. And, uh,
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And that's what I waited for in that suicide cell, just like for a gang of them to come in or to take me into a closet room, you know, out of the camera's eye. And it never happened. And one by one, guy after guy, you know, like they have to come in and do cell checks every so often. Guy would come in and be like, hey, man. I'm hearing a lot of dirt about this guy, Peg.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
You just got to keep your mouth shut. Don't talk to any of us. Like somebody tries to get you into a conversation, just don't say anything to them. And then the next guy would come in like, you need anything? Am I allowed a pillow in here? They're like, yeah, you can have a pillow. Comes back with two pillows for me. Next guy would come in. Hey, man. You got to let this thing play out.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
There's a lot of stuff swirling around the community right now. Just hang in there and just don't talk to anybody in here. You know, so like, and that was every guy that came on and came into the cell would say something similar like that. You know, like, hey man, you know, you're in a suicide cell. I don't want to see anything happen to you.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Just, you know, like just you'll get through this, you know, just trying to pump me up a little. And I sat there for three and a half years in the county jail. I eventually took a plea deal to... I had 30 to life hanging over my head, first degree murder. And I can't tell you how that suffocates you, bro. It's just... I talk about that wet blanket feeling. This was just a wet blanket.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Yeah, yeah. Like, because these guards strip you naked, like, at the blink of an eye. Like, so I'm having to get stripped naked by a guy who represents Peg to me.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Yeah. Yeah. A sheriff's officer like he was in the jail.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Oh, it would just, you know, yeah. Like, but you just, you just got to do it. You know, it's just like, they tell you, they tell you strip, you got to strip.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Well, I didn't get actual therapy until I went to prison.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Yeah. So for three and a half years. You're kept in the county jail until you get sentenced. So, but I started, I had people from all over the country sending me books.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Yeah, this was worldwide news. Like, you know, it went, you know. Man murders his Boy Scout leader who he says molested him. You know, I'm on the front page of the L.A. Times, the Baltimore Sun, New York Post.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Oh, it was horrible. But I was forced into it. I couldn't hide from it. But it's like for the world, this thing that I guarded it like it was a diamond inside of me. Now it's just like it's out there.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
It was tough to feel liberated, you know, when you got this life sentence hanging over you. Right. But I started getting letters upon letters upon letters. And it was from a lot of classmates who said the same thing happened to me, Clark. What? And it was just nothing but love. And I'm so sorry. And...
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Uh, you're a hero and you did what I wanted to do, you know, like from all around the country, I'm getting letters, not just my classmates, you know, like just everybody opening up to me. And I'm like, and it just started like dawn on me, like what a fucking idiot. Like I just flushed my life away. over something I thought would demasculate me, like make me less than a man.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
You know, they never said anything about that. They just said stranger danger.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And here everybody's telling me how strong I am, what a hero I am. I love you. It's just nothing but love and support. And your mind tells you, people look at you as weak you know forgetting you know people look at you as a pillar of strength for addressing your pain and healing from it yeah that's what they look at yes like um I just I interviewed for my thing, a retired NYPD officer.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
This guy is jacked like he is like pump daddy. And and he was as a little boy by his next door neighbor repeatedly. And he lived in silence and he became a cop. And he became a functioning alcoholic cop. And he became a womanizing cop. And he blew through marriages and hurt tons of women like I did. And he stumbled across a clip of me talking about my abuse.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And he's like, if I'm going to have any type of life, he's in his 50s, you know, retired from the force. It's like, if I'm going to have any type of salvageable life, I got to address this thing. And he reached out to me. You know, first it was just with a couple short little messages, then it was longer messages, then...
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And it was, I want to come on your show, but I'm afraid, you know, I don't want to be looked at as gay or a sissy or weak or I'm like, dude, it's going to be the complete opposite. You're going to have to trust me on this. People aren't going to look at you as gay or weak or a sissy or a wimp.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
People are going to when you address this and you speak about it, people are going to think you're amazing. And he did. And, you know, it was just an outpouring of love for him. And this woman in his town, this gorgeous woman in his town, reached out to him and said, same thing happened to me as a kid. Can we have a coffee?
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And they went and had coffee and she told him her story and he shared more of his story. And he calls me up and he's like, dude, I am head over heels in love. I found the love of my life. I'm like, what? He's like, from your show. He's like, this girl reached out to me. And I'm like, didn't I tell you everything would change, bro?
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Like you were so, you know, your mind had, he's like, you were right about everything, man. He goes, my life just completely changed since I addressed this. You know, so like, Yeah, that's awesome. It was totally rewarding, you know, like, and that's just over and over, you know, with the people I've had on that have said that.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Yeah, you have to. So I read this book, Man's Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl, Holocaust survivor.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Yeah. It's like every person locked up reads it.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Yeah. And, you know, in it was a line, you know, I'll paraphrase, like, when you are faced with a situation you cannot change, you have to change yourself. And I was like, wow, like my situation, I'm facing life in prison. This may not change. I'm gonna have to change myself to adapt to this. And it was just like a light bulb. And I just read it over and over and over.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And then I read the book, The Power of Now by Eckhart Tolle, which was on mindfulness. You know, I scoffed at meditation or mindfulness earlier in life. You know, like that simply wasn't going to happen. And I just started putting into effect how to take back control of my mind. He gave, you know, gave you tools to take back control of your thoughts.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
You know, the thoughts like 24-7 when I was locked up, you know, just like... Our minds hate the present. They want to go past or forward. So it was either going back to the abuse, back to the murder, or life in prison, life in prison, back, murder. And that was it. I was just a yo-yo with those thoughts. And then I just learned to just be in the moment, practice a mantra.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
When I would walk, I'd be sitting in the day room and it's just chaos in there on the day room tier. And in my mind, I'm just repeating my mantra over and over and over and over and over and over, just trying to keep my mind from going to a dark place or going to the future or just... Like, right, we're going to stay right in the present here and just, you know, be present. And I did that.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
I got blessed with a five-year sentence. I took a plea deal, second-degree manslaughter. The judge gave me the minimum. He apologized on the record for having to send me to prison for a single day. Gave me the minimum. I had to go to... Newark, New Jersey to Northern State Prison right by the airport there.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And my very first day there, a therapist came to my cell and she said, I can't believe you're here. I followed your case when it was on TV. And she goes, I just saw your name come across my computer and I came right over. Would you start therapy with me? I said, yeah, absolutely. And so it took me having to go to prison to get therapy for the first time in my life, which is another irony. Yeah.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And then I joined – she ran a group class for childhood trauma. And she goes, you know, like we would have at most 10 guys in the class. She goes, every frigging inmate in here should be – every inmate has childhood trauma. You know, but guys don't address anything. You know, what was shocking to me is I'm in my cell one day and our tier ran – GED classes, which most of the tiers did.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
But at most I ever saw out there was four guys. It was usually two to four. And I was like, oh, that's all who need their GED. Well, we had the same guards work the same shifts all the time. And then a couple months down the road, the guard who worked that morning shift, the regular guard wasn't there. And this new guy called out, all right, GED classes. And he started to do a roll call.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
of all the people that should be coming out. And it was literally every cell. It was a two-tier thing. It was every cell, top and bottom. He's calling out... 95% of the guys for GED classes. I was like, all these fucking guys are in here, need their GED, are here because they don't have education, because they had shitty upbringings, and they're not even taking a free GED while they're here.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Like what a waste. That was shocking to me. Wow.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Yeah, like, you know, everything you and I just went through, I go through with her.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
I mean, does it feel like you're exiting the Matrix or something? Yeah, it's just like, oh, like, man, what the fuck? You know, I'd just be like, what the hell, man? Like, everything I did in life was... It goes right back to that. It just dictated all my behaviors. Just couldn't commit to a relationship, couldn't commit to a job, drugs, alcohol, gambling, sex, not wanting to be trapped, just...
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it all comes down to, you have to confront, you have to like finally address the 500 pound gorilla in the room. Like, you know, like do a little self-analysis, you know, you know, like just take a step back and, and figure out why you're doing the things you're doing. Like, why, why are you going from one destructive relationship after another?
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Like, it's always... And it's... You know, the coach that everybody loves or the priest everybody loves or the teacher everybody loves.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
You know, we, we replicate in life what we knew in our childhood. You're like, I just, I have... just so many women that reach out to me who are just nonstop with these horrible relationships because their early childhood was horror.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
You don't go around, like, you know, you hear this, you know, there's a There's a couple loudmouth dudes on YouTube who spout off about their prison life. That's not how it was for me at least. Maybe California is so different. Yeah. I had sent – I had my article from the front page of our local paper, Frederick's Murders, Boy Scout Leader, and whatever. I had sent that to myself online.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Who's more safe, the lieutenant in the sheriff's department?
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
To prison, when I left the county jail, I gave it to somebody. I'm like, send this envelope to me, wait a day or two, and then mail it to me. And you got to go to this place, a central receiving part of the prison to get classified. They got to find out if you got diseases, if you got AIDS, if you got gang affiliations. They got to figure out what prison best suits you.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
So I had that and you can send yourself mail there. So I had this envelope sent to me there, which I got while I was there. So I didn't have like... People weren't asking me for paperwork. I got this one bunkie in prison though. He's a young blood. Off the hook, like just... He was a live wire and he came into my cell and he's like, the only 50 year old white men in prison are pedophiles.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
If you're a fucking pedophile, I'm going to fucking beat you to death right now. It's like I'm the complete opposite of a pedophile. He goes, yeah, that's what they all say. And I reached under my thing and I took out my said, there you go, bro. You know, my my article from the newspaper is like, oh, cool, bro. He's like, cool. So and like so nobody asked me for paperwork.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
This other dude, he made hooch on our tier. And he made a thing of hooch and he goes, Clark, you can have all the hooch you want for what you did. I was like, nah, I'm good, man.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Well, it's not like in prison, you can't go around like showing your cards, like showing your weakness. You can't go like... In that group therapy class, we all had to take a vow amongst each other that nothing left that class. We could openly talk in this class. We could cry. We could hug. We can't mention a thing outside of these walls. So we could get killed. Yeah.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And the therapist was like, you're instantly booted out of here if anybody brings up anything that's mentioned in this classroom. And, you know, so we had to trust each other for that. And, you know, guys would share, you know, their horror stories in there. And that was the only environment. When I was in the county jail, dude after dude came up to me, you know, because like.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
I got like three different papers sent to me, but other guys, you know, say another four to six would get newspapers. So there's always newspapers on the tier and they would see, you know, my molestation is splashed all over the front page along with murder and guys would come up and sit down next to me. I'm here for the same thing. I'm here because I was molested as a kid.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
I became a heroin addict and started stealing and started thieving. And then another guy would come up. But guys in prison didn't come up to me and share that. In jail they did, but not in prison. Just in that group class we did.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
I had to serve a year there. So I did three and a half. I was supposed to do four years, three months. They kept me an extra three months for whatever bullshit reason. I got called down to the parole office and the guy's like- you know, when I had like two months to go, he's like, you're not getting out in two months. And I'm like, why?
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Cause that was my 85%, you know, you know, the Nira act, no early release act, you know, 85% was four years, three months out of a, out of five. And, uh, He's like, you don't have enough commutation time because you spent so much time in the county jail compared to what your sentence is. You don't have that good time. He goes, so you have a 85% date, but you also have a max date.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
They hide in plain sight. Right. And they hide behind their role in the community. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And even after I got arrested, we'll get into why. Yeah. He was a member of the Historical Society in our little town of Stillwater. And all the old ladies, you know, were quoted in the paper. He would never have done something like that. He was the nicest man in the world. Yeah.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And he goes, they're keeping you to your max date. So it was four years, six months, and a couple of days. So I had to do an extra three months.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Well, I still got three years of parole when I get released. And, you know, they're piss testing you. They're seeing you twice a week early on. Then it's once a week, you know, constantly testing you. I instantly became an advocate for getting a new law adopted in New Jersey for statute of limitations when somebody can sue. their abuser or the organization that held their abuser.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And I started as an advocate. I sort of like fell into it. I went and saw this high-profile law firm. An article came across my phone. Now, when you Google stuff, all of a sudden you start getting news articles related to what you Google. So I must have Googled something about abuse or molestation.