Clas Svahn

So how do you make... Because you have done this sheer Herculean effort where you have 16 of the room that we're in, which is filled to the brim with documents.

How do you make progress in a field where what we just described, it's almost like Descartes' demon, where your whole perceptive apparatus, everything you see is at the discretion of possibly some of these entities showing up in random places.

And it's like, how do you progress in a field where

It's like we're chimps and we're trying to study humans.

How do you progress?

It is very difficult to do that.

So most ufologists are looking at a particular small part of the subject.

And if you do like this, you will never get ready with what you're doing.

Right.

Because it's so very much more complex than you thought from the beginning.

So most ufologists are saying, okay, this is not interesting.

I'm looking at that.

Yes.

And I think that's not the way forward, really.

But even beyond that, like, I look at, like, you know, Jacques Vallée, who we were talking about earlier, one of the best theorists on the topic, you know, French godfather of a lot of modern research, amazing guy, and, you know, on par with you as far as all your encyclopedic knowledge is.

He, you know, like if you read some of his early books, like Invisible College or something in 1975, are we that much farther as far as the theory as to what's happening than he was then?

I don't think so either.

That's sad, really.

It is.

And it's really impossible to get further because it's so huge.