Cliff Sims

I don't know where he got this story.

There's only two people in the room, Steve Bannon and Andy Sarabian.

And one of the two people in the room, he never even talked to to find out if this story even happened.

I don't know if he talked to Steve Bannon or not.

I'm just saying, at least one of the people in the middle of this story, he never even called to ask

about this scene, and yet it's a prominent scene in one of his big best-selling books.

This is the most famous American journalist in history.

And that's how little he cared about getting the story right.

Now imagine, you know, the Bible says, if you're faithful in small things, be faithful in big things.

If you're not faithful in small things, you won't be faithful in big things.

If Bob Woodward couldn't care enough to get that story right, what makes you think that he would get any story of any meaning and substance right?

The answer to that is he doesn't give a crap about the truth.

What he really cares about is what's gonna move books and what's gonna get clicks and what's gonna drive conversation.

And the incentives in the media right now are so perverse that they are not,

they're not leading to outcomes that produce truth, that get us closer to truth and understanding, which is why the podcast format has blown up because it gives you an opportunity to really dig in and have a conversation with somebody and try to find common ground or try to find truth

that the current media environment is not conducive to.

So I saw that extrapolated across name and issue and topic, especially with Trump, because he's such a divisive figure.

So the media had a strange relationship with Trump because on one hand, they needed him to prop up their business.

He drove interest.

People were clicking on things and watching things, and now, and then he's gone.