Coco Kahn

This week, over 1,700 prisoners in England and Wales have been let out early after serving 40% of their sentence as opposed to the usual 50% in an attempt to ease overcrowding in our critically full prisons.

This week, over 1,700 prisoners in England and Wales have been let out early after serving 40% of their sentence as opposed to the usual 50% in an attempt to ease overcrowding in our critically full prisons.

The new temporary measure excludes people with sentences for violent crimes over four years, sex offences and certain domestic abuse-related crimes.

The new temporary measure excludes people with sentences for violent crimes over four years, sex offences and certain domestic abuse-related crimes.

So how has our justice system become so broken and could more radical and, dare we say it, unpopular changes help fix it? Pia Sinha is CEO of the Prison Reform Trust and a former prison governor. And David Navarro is host and producer of Delinquent Nation on YouTube, in which he interviews fellow ex-prisoners. Welcome to you both. Thank you. Thank you for having us.

So how has our justice system become so broken and could more radical and, dare we say it, unpopular changes help fix it? Pia Sinha is CEO of the Prison Reform Trust and a former prison governor. And David Navarro is host and producer of Delinquent Nation on YouTube, in which he interviews fellow ex-prisoners. Welcome to you both. Thank you. Thank you for having us.

I do just want to pick up on this early release. David, actually, some of the people being released early have nowhere to go. Last month, prison inspectors found that a quarter of prisoners at HMP Nottingham released under that scheme were homeless, leading some returning to the prison system. So what are some other challenges that people face when they get released?

I do just want to pick up on this early release. David, actually, some of the people being released early have nowhere to go. Last month, prison inspectors found that a quarter of prisoners at HMP Nottingham released under that scheme were homeless, leading some returning to the prison system. So what are some other challenges that people face when they get released?

Obviously, David, you interview ex-offenders on your YouTube channel. That resignation that Pia talked about there, is that something you've encountered as well?

Obviously, David, you interview ex-offenders on your YouTube channel. That resignation that Pia talked about there, is that something you've encountered as well?

So in general, the sense I get from you is that the early release scheme, you think it's good, it's positive.

So in general, the sense I get from you is that the early release scheme, you think it's good, it's positive.

I think that's sort of what we really want to get to the heart of in this episode is like, how do you decouple the politicking from like, actually, what is the issues and how can we make them better? So I've got a quote here from the chief inspector of prisons, Charlie Taylor. He welcomed the early release scheme in his annual report that was released this week.

I think that's sort of what we really want to get to the heart of in this episode is like, how do you decouple the politicking from like, actually, what is the issues and how can we make them better? So I've got a quote here from the chief inspector of prisons, Charlie Taylor. He welcomed the early release scheme in his annual report that was released this week.

But he also said they are not in themselves a solution to decades of underinvestment and inertia in a vital public protection service. So his report draws on 72 reports also covering prisons, young offenders institutions, court custody and immigration detention centres. I'm going to play you a clip actually. So here he is speaking to BBC Breakfast.

But he also said they are not in themselves a solution to decades of underinvestment and inertia in a vital public protection service. So his report draws on 72 reports also covering prisons, young offenders institutions, court custody and immigration detention centres. I'm going to play you a clip actually. So here he is speaking to BBC Breakfast.

David, what do you make of that? Do you agree with that assessment? And just generally, what are your thoughts on the state of prisons as they are now?

David, what do you make of that? Do you agree with that assessment? And just generally, what are your thoughts on the state of prisons as they are now?

One of the things you mentioned earlier, you talked about like, you know, in America, they give these really long sentences, you know, longer than a lifetime. Where our sentences are going up, getting longer. I think there's a public perception that that must put people off committing crimes.

One of the things you mentioned earlier, you talked about like, you know, in America, they give these really long sentences, you know, longer than a lifetime. Where our sentences are going up, getting longer. I think there's a public perception that that must put people off committing crimes.