Codie Sanchez

So if you ask me,

at 11, what makes you happy?

I would say going for a walk with my dad.

And if you dug into it, you would realize, actually, that was a pretty demanding thing you guys did.

And it's interesting it didn't even occur to you to call that hard.

Pleasure is such a kind of key.

We don't talk enough about

pleasure, particularly in the workplace.

And we have a notion that pleasure comes from the break.

We've got to plan fun activities.

You have the ping pong table or whatever in the stereotypical version of the startup because you want to give people a fun... Well, but to me, that's always slightly off the point.

The point is, is the work itself...

pleasurable.

It should be, when they get up in the morning, are they dying to come to work?

I think in many cases, particularly in startups, people are.

And you've answered your question.

And if people are showing up, raring to go, then you've solved your problem, right?

They're into what they're doing.

But that idea that pleasure as easily comes from

from completing a challenging task as it does from taking a break from a challenging task.