Cy Gavin

There's what you're trying to do and then what you actually did do.

And if you're even fussily trying to put paint down in an exact way, it's still communicating that you're a person who's probably out of control.

Why not just eliminate that step entirely and just be yourself?

That's true.

I did.

Calls as well.

Birds have like flight, migratory mating calls and songs, some of them.

So I was a person who started this group in my high school with Envirothon, which is a kind of state run academic team.

And yeah, like I was a specialist in bird calls and stuff.

Yeah, we went to states.

We didn't win states.

You didn't win?

No, but we were incredibly good.

My family were Jehovah's Witnesses, so they would go knocking door to door.

That in the rural setting means driving around for hours, and that's what we did.

But it was really great because actually it meant that I could bring books with me and read in the car and put me in spaces where I would have opportunities to observe birds.

And that made it actually engaging for me.

Many, yeah.

I do.

I moved to California where there was a whole other set of things to learn, so I sort of lost a little bit there, but