Cy Gavin

And a dagger.

I think that, yeah, I think she was saying it's like a sort of inducement to deal with like topics that otherwise would be, you know, people can tune out or compartmentalize away.

I think she really believed in the power of painting as much as anything else and wasn't just an image that it had a kind of, can have a certain kind of power.

I think that that exists in paint in a way that I don't really talk about, but I think it is a real thing that I make my paintings myself.

And so like, you know, a lot of people do have all kinds of people doing stuff.

Most.

And so, which is fine.

That's making an image.

I think when you're making a painting, though, it does have a kind of inherent, like, I feel that way when you look at Rembrandt.

They're made by teams of people or Rubens or whatever.

What I like most is looking at paintings that are made by a person and where you can retrace the actual physicality of it, what they were bored at and what they cared about, how they adjusted something or how they maybe chose to crop an image after it was painted.

To me, that is, at a human level, very interesting.

And I think it felt dishonest to make work that didn't foreground that.

And I think that is why it felt increasingly dishonest to make paintings that were having a drawing as an underpinning and being kind of dutifully executing it.

Exactly.

For better or worse.

But it's like, who said that?

I forget who said it.

Maybe Phil Augustine or someone was like, it's not dangerous.

Like running and saving people out of buildings is dangerous.