Cy Gavin

That's a good question.

I just didn't, I didn't feel, it didn't feel, um, conceptual enough for zero.

I mean, I think it's like, um, I think, no, I think it was just like making a perfect cocktail or making like a perfect meal or something.

It had to do these things and it's like, okay, it did the things.

I think in the process of making something like that in that mind so that you can totally daydream and do anything.

Yeah.

It's more of an artisanal activity.

Hugely, yeah.

I mean, also society and what capitalism was and what globalization was, which I didn't know and encountered that when I went to school.

But yeah, I mean, I lived in the kind of ravaged aftermath of...

industry going into a place and then leaving.

And that meant strip mines, but also old mines that had been sealed up that would open up and just consume someone's house.

And my town was from 1901.

It's very similar to many towns along these rivers that were all mill towns.

So there was an entitlement that people felt, I think, having had grandparents who had worked in situations that were very deadly to them, but which gave them a pension.

And

I didn't grow up in that denouement.

I grew up in a denouement that was 40 years after that.

But I would go into buildings that were like as if you'd stopped time in the 30s.

Just in fixtures, everything was like that.