Damien Hughes

wow, these people are willing to share so much vulnerability that I thought we were onto something.

It was, it was a definite lesson.

I think what really surprised me though was that I'd had conversations like this in sort of closed one-on-one confidential meetings and to then hear that these elite athletes were willing to share it so publicly to make themselves so vulnerable with the idea that hopefully it could help others.

That was the bit that surprised me because I didn't think, I wasn't sure whether we as a society were ready for that level of candor.

So that first time when Ben, like I remember when you asked him a question and he went, wow, I've never been asked questions like this before.

And it was making him think.

And I think the fact that he hadn't prepared an answer.

So therefore he was giving us the unvarnished truth.

I remember thinking, this is like a real privilege for us to listen to it.

So hopefully there'll be people out there that recognise the value of it.

I'd co-authored a couple of books on Thomas Hearns and Marvin Hagler.

So they're two of what are commonly known as the Four Kings, like a golden era of boxing history.

And I went on a BBC Five Live show

It was around the anniversary of this and I was with Steve Bunce and Mark Chapman and Mike Costello and we were talking about them.

And at the end of the show, it was rank them in order of significance.

And everyone else was like, well, Sugar Ray Leonard was the most talented.

Others were talking about Roberto Duran was the most charismatic.

And I said, Marvin Hagler.

And they were like, why would you put him there?

I was like, because he retired and never came back.