Damien Hughes

You've got to really genuinely love your craft to want to subject yourself to that.

It's almost like a rite of passage for all the world's tennis players to go through.

Let's listen to Conor describe what he describes as almost like that sense of purgatory of what that world can sometimes feel like.

I like the bit there where he's chuckling at that word in there, the greatest moment of my career and not my life.

Because there's something really quite painful underneath that sentence.

Because the reason players say it that way is they've been told that they need to separate the two and most of them can't.

Now for Conor, it was the winning and the losing and who he was as a person.

But for a while, they were all the same things.

And that's exactly the kind of problem that Ben Crow has spent 30 years investigating and now his life helping people solve.

Absolutely.

Well, listen to those clips there.

Three different tennis players, three different versions of exactly the same problem where their identity starts to become wrapped up around the results they get.

So pressure then replaces the play.

The sport becomes something that you need to survive rather than to thrive in.

And that's what I'm saying to you.

Ben Crow spent 30 years helping the world's best athletes solve exactly this conundrum.

So in Wimbledon week, it felt like the perfect moment

to contact Ben in Australia and hear some of his wisdom.

Absolutely.

He asked them to understand who are they beyond what they do to separate their identity from the results that they get.