Dan Epps

Kind of stopped taking kind of core Fourth Amendment cases. Is this a search? Is this a let's apply the CATS test type cases? And you've speculated about this a little bit. I think we've talked about your speculation on the show, but now we get to talk with you about it directly. So why do you think that is going on?

And this is something that you predicted, right? In a case you argued, Davis versus United States. Yeah. So this may be sour grapes.

And this is something that you predicted, right? In a case you argued, Davis versus United States. Yeah. So this may be sour grapes.

Basically- For one person, right? For one person, yeah.

Basically- For one person, right? For one person, yeah.

Well, they just need to – they're waiting for your book, right? So you just have a book that just came out, which I tried to acquire. It was sold out on Amazon. I don't know if the backlog has cleared up and their new printing is out. But why don't you tell our listeners a little bit about your book?

Well, they just need to – they're waiting for your book, right? So you just have a book that just came out, which I tried to acquire. It was sold out on Amazon. I don't know if the backlog has cleared up and their new printing is out. But why don't you tell our listeners a little bit about your book?

All right. Well, we will look forward to seeing that in print. So let's talk about the Fourth Amendment case we do have to talk about. And it's not a – I guess this is not a criminal procedure case because this is a case that comes up in civil suit. But it – is a case that proceeds under the Fourth Amendment. This is a case called Barnes v. Felix.

All right. Well, we will look forward to seeing that in print. So let's talk about the Fourth Amendment case we do have to talk about. And it's not a – I guess this is not a criminal procedure case because this is a case that comes up in civil suit. But it – is a case that proceeds under the Fourth Amendment. This is a case called Barnes v. Felix.

Will, do you want to tell us some about this case?

Will, do you want to tell us some about this case?

The whole thing takes a very short amount of time. Yes. We go from the stop to the driver being dead in just a matter of minutes.

The whole thing takes a very short amount of time. Yes. We go from the stop to the driver being dead in just a matter of minutes.

It did seem like it's a hard question to know exactly what should be relevant to that inquiry. I mean the court has told us in past cases, in these cases where a plaintiff is alleging excessive force under the Fourth Amendment, that you do a totality of the circumstances inquiry. But that doesn't answer the question of which circumstances are relevant.

It did seem like it's a hard question to know exactly what should be relevant to that inquiry. I mean the court has told us in past cases, in these cases where a plaintiff is alleging excessive force under the Fourth Amendment, that you do a totality of the circumstances inquiry. But that doesn't answer the question of which circumstances are relevant.

And there were lots of things being thrown around. Do you look at the seriousness of the offense? How much time do you look at? Does it matter whether the officer is negligent or not? There was an interesting exchange at the argument where Justice Gorsuch says – You can't look at negligence because that's a subjective mens rea consideration, which is wrong. He said that's an objective test.

And there were lots of things being thrown around. Do you look at the seriousness of the offense? How much time do you look at? Does it matter whether the officer is negligent or not? There was an interesting exchange at the argument where Justice Gorsuch says – You can't look at negligence because that's a subjective mens rea consideration, which is wrong. He said that's an objective test.

But at least teaching one-off criminal law, negligence is objective, right? As I understood it, not subjective. So I thought that was a little strange.

But at least teaching one-off criminal law, negligence is objective, right? As I understood it, not subjective. So I thought that was a little strange.

It could apply to gross negligence though, right?