Dan Ivascyn

You know, people ask me, you know, what podcast do I like?

I like sports and I like our industry, but I try to spend the bulk of my time listening to all the tech stuff because that's the area where I have the least amount of feel.

Yeah.

But it's very, very important.

And then we're trying to get a bit more of a –

you know, a bearish or cautionary message, you know, when you're lending against AI investments and at best you get par back, hopefully,

Unlike some of these private AI companies where you're talking about five, ten times multiples, tripling money.

Correct.

And, of course, there are huge macro implications here.

But even if you get the macro right and you make a few mistakes in a bond portfolio, they're like grenades going off.

You can quickly lose half a percent here, half a percent there.

You work hard to generate that incremental return.

Sure.

And we've talked about this for the last few years, but in the general thought

at least when you look at the geopolitical stuff, is that for a while, it was safe to assume you're a politician, you generate good economic outcomes, everything's fine.

You get reelected.

And most policy was based on global economic efficiency, the whole globalization trend.

And then we had the COVID shock.

And now we have a series of shocks, populism within politics, the realization that significant parts of

The economy, middle income, lower income households haven't done so well the last few decades.