Dan Ivascyn

Or they reprice massively, and then they look cheap again.

That we don't know, and bonds bounce around as well.

But what I do for a living—

I say it time and time again when our clients come in.

I'm glad I don't do the VC stuff.

It's just not the way that myself and others at PIMCO are wired to the same degree in that we like the cash flow piece.

We like to forecast based on cash flows.

They create a predictability to what we do.

You guys talking about, again, the AI investments and where someone's going to pay for something that's not going to have a dividend maybe ever.

That's tough.

It's unpredictable.

Yeah.

So I, I think the return to normal parts of, yes.

Um, and, and, and that this does require a little bit of, um, a little bit of nuance, but, um, we coming out of the global financial crisis, uh,

you know, it's been a very, very unique period in that you've typically, and investors have grown used to, earning almost your entire yield when you invest in risky credit, below investment grade credit.

No recessions.

And then COVID came.

They papered it over.

Papered it over.

There were no losses in COVID.