Dan Pfeiffer

Like that is not the issue.

Now, if all of a sudden we want to start competing in North Dakota, we got to get that number to like 65.

But in terms of winning, even winning in Texas, Alaska, Iowa, Ohio, that is a sustainable number.

What we care about are independents who voted for Trump and Republicans who do not identify as MAGA.

Because I think...

I think we've all, in the sort of political conversation post-2024, convinced ourselves that MAGA is a movement based on a set of views, right?

That it is anti-immigration.

It is anti-trade.

We believed it was America first nationalism, right?

Smaller government, those sorts of things.

It is not those things.

No.

MAGA is another way of saying Trump.

What Trump is for, they are for.

And that we have to accept... When you accept that reality, you start then realizing...

Two things.

One, those people are not leaving Donald Trump anytime soon, if ever.

And that the party could look very differently after Trump.

Now, I am not arguing that all of a sudden, like our friends at the bulwark are going to be like the bulwark Republicanism or Mitt Romney Republicanism is coming back.

I don't think that.