Dan Pfeiffer

We did tons of off-the-records and like – Yeah, we would bring in columnists off-the-record all the time to meet with Obama.

You'd bring in people – you do all the record stuff too.

But one of the ways you just – like you hope it shapes coverage.

And it's not just like grifting in terms of shaping coverage.

Like the idea of the off-the-record conversation is to have –

or the background conversation.

And we can dispute the journalistic ethics of participating in these things, but the argument from our side was you want people to understand why the president is doing certain things in ways in which he can't.

You're never going to ask him those questions in an interview, but if he explains the strategy or his general approach to politics, policy, et cetera, you're at least interpreting the things you see him saying and doing

through the framework of what we're doing.

Like David Plouffe and I, when we were in the White House, we used to do a, I think it was a weekly meeting, you know, deep background meeting with the White House press that we would try to try and explain.

It's people like, I want you to understand how we see the world.

So when you see what we're saying, you understand from our perspective.

Yeah, you can think it's stupid or wrong or bad or whatever else, but at least you understand what our thought process is.

I think the hard part with the Trump cell phone thing, and this is unique to Trump is,

And you hinted at this, but there is this confusing access with information, which if the president talks to you, but he doesn't tell you anything true.

Yes.

It's like, what is the-

Yeah, that's exactly right.

It is certainly true, and I believe this, that people should take what the president says seriously, even Trump.

And Trump gets away with saying a lot of things because a lot of people in the press don't take him seriously.