Dan Rather

A string of murders that stymied authorities for years, the body count steadily rising, along with the heat on one city's police force. Women were dying. Were the police slow off the mark, too inexperienced to catch the killer? Or worst of all, did they simply bungle the case? All charges they vigorously deny. Their chief accuser in many ways is one of their own.

How tough is it to catch a serial killer? Very, say experts in the field. For one thing, the perpetrator rarely looks the part, and since he usually has no remorse, he doesn't act guilty either. Most serial offenders are considered to be fairly smart, smart enough to at least keep quiet about their evil deeds in the presence of strangers, even if some may openly taunt the authorities.

In Spokane, Washington, 10 women had been murdered in two years. After a painstaking investigation and sometimes painful scrutiny of the police, authorities finally got their man. Harold Dow picks up the story. This is Breaking News.

A former detective with a lot of miles on the homicide beat and a lot of baggage too. A key figure in another notorious case. Harold Dow goes inside the highly charged investigation of murder in Spokane.

Trying to solve the puzzle of the serial killer. Serial killers are unique.

Those who profile serial killers offer this chilling assessment. that Yates has probably committed even more murders than he's been linked to thus far. There's some very long gaps in his self-confessed killing spree, and the experts say it's unlikely a serial killer would go that long, a decade or more, between murders.

Investigators in Washington state have been making lists of every unsolved murder everywhere Yates is known to have been during the last 25 years. But so far, aside from those crimes that have already landed him in prison for life, Robert Yates isn't talking.

I'm Dan Rather. A serial killer terrorizes Spokane, Washington. Did mistakes by the police cost lives? 48 hours right now. A baffling murder spree.

At least a dozen women murdered in three years, like Debbie's sister, Shawn. She loved her children so much. There were more questions than answers. This was our first serial killer case. Were the police overlooking clues in plain sight? Controversial ex-cop Mark Furman started turning up the heat. We're going, what are they doing? He is investigating the investigators.

It's like a body stacking up like cordwood. Then finally, police get their man, a former Army pilot and father of five. Murder in the first degree of you plead. Mr. Yates deserves to die.

But Furman charges the delay was deadly. Nine, ten women would still be alive. Did police mistakes cost lives? Isn't it easy to Monday morning quarterback? A 48 Hours Mystery. Murder in Spokane. Who knows more about pressure than a cop working homicide, always under the gun?

I'm Dan Rather. He was a proud father of three, married to the same woman for 30 years. But when Bob Dorotek suddenly disappeared, the trail of suspicion led right back home. 48 hours, right now.

This is the family that appeared to be living in harmony until one day, more than a year ago, when the usual peace and quiet was shattered. setting off a chain of events that would leave a family torn apart. Erin Moriarty investigates by following a trail no one expected to travel.

More than a year after Bob Dorotek was murdered, his body dumped by a mountain road near San Diego, his widow Jane faces trial. Although she firmly denies any involvement in the crime, there is troubling evidence to overcome, especially blood evidence taken from the master bedroom of the couple's hillside home.

She's been in prison nearly six months, unable to raise the unusually high bail in the case, $3 million. And Jane Dorotek's lawyers are weighing a risky strategy, one that seems certain to fan the flames of animosity in a family whose better days are but a flickering memory. Here again is Erin Moriarty.

The ties that bind families together are so basic to our lives, it's easy, too easy, to take them for granted. That is, until they're gone. Nearly all families have their share of secrets, mysteries. But sometimes the burden of keeping those secrets can be so great even the closest of family ties can start to unravel. So it is with one family whose mystery involves murder.

A cop behind bars.

The murder case against Patrick Bradford took almost a year to piece together, a painstaking and at times painful investigation for his fellow police officers in Evansville, Indiana. But by the end of a three-week trial, even some of his staunchest defenders on the force had become firmly convinced Bradford was indeed guilty of murdering his girlfriend, Tammy Lohr.

But now, nine years later, Patrick Bradford's family and friends still believing he is innocent are pressing ahead with their fight to set him free. They are convinced that police, feeling pressured, rushed to judgment.

I'm Dan Rather. He wanted to be a hero, and to many he was, until he was charged with murder. 48 hours, right now. Patrick Bradford was cut out to be a cop.

But when his girlfriend was murdered, he found himself the lead suspect.

This childhood friend even went to law school just to help set him free.

Susan Spencer has the first television interview with Patrick Bradford. Tammy's dead. Somebody killed her.

It's been many, many years since we first had you on.

Yeah.

Wow.

Uh-huh.

Oh, you did? Other graduates?

Yeah.

Thank you both.

Right.

Right. That you're closest to. Yeah.

Yes.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Great.

Okay.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yep.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Right.

Yeah.

Sure.

Oh, this is heartbreaking.

He's an object's friend. How are you?

What?

Oh, wow.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Now watch out for those zombies with this new rake.

Yeah.

I was told to stop saying it for exactly that reason.

Okay.

OK.

Okay.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Oh, wow.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah.

Oh, no. Which is possible.

Wow.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to Armchair Expert early and ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts, or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Anonymous. I'm Dan Rather, and I'm joined by the Duchess.

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Ooh, so deep up into his rectum.

And is it clear from the imaging what the object is?

If you had to guess how many inches beyond the anus it was, could you guess?

Three or four inches up there.

He really had a long finger to work with.

Oh. You kind of maybe got to fill air around it. You might have to be inflating basically as you pull it out.

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Oh, I'm going to guess. I mean, his bike is there.

It would have to go back to get your bike. And also you just had a pretty massive procedure up there and you're going to now ride.

I bet there'd be like a HIPAA issue. Like they couldn't call the next hospital and be like, hey, what was that? I think wouldn't that violate HIPAA somehow?

I have an immediate guess. I think it was a bottle of conditioner. I think he was in the shower and he decided to masturbate and he thought it might feel nice to have this bottle up his butt. Now, when you think back in your mind of the image, could it have been a conditioner bottle?

I take it all back. He was sitting on a picnic table having a nice cold... It was an accident.

And I'm sorry to ask for this detail, but my assumption now is that the thin end was first.

Of the soda or whatever? Yeah. No, because the cap would have had to have been on.

No, he would have taken the cap.

I hope he figured out how to enjoy that hobby without any further complications. If someone wants to do that and that feels nice, I'm all for it.

No, that is really a cruel detail of the story.

Now I'm double sad because he didn't have anyone to call, but then I don't know that that's the truth either because he might have just been like, there's no way I'm calling anyone.

Well, Lucy, this has been incredible. I kind of had fingers crossed we would get something stuck up the butt story. You read about those occasionally.

Based on the tone of the show, I thought this might interest you.

Well, we're so happy to have you.

And from the bottom of my heart, I'm more grateful for y'all than even doctors. I think the stuff that you guys have to do is just the most impressive.

From the bottom of my butt to the bottom of your heart.

All right. Well, it was lovely meeting you. And again, thank you so much for the work you do.

All right.

Bye, guys.

The depths of my heart. The deepest part.

You're hung up on bottom because we're talking about someone's bottom.

The rectum of the heart. That's my point is we're talking about bottoms right now, like butt bottoms.

From the top of my heart.

From the left chamber of my heart.

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Probably. Or Abraham Lincoln. I'm never going to watch that doc.

No, I'm just kidding.

How are you guys? So good. Do you want to use a code name? Let's go with the name Evan.

Yeah, and I like the name Evan. Do you have a best friend named Evan or something? I don't.

Oh, okay. So, Evan, where are you in the country? You can be as vague as you'd like. I'm just curious. I'm in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.

Probably did.

Now, were you on the hunt for Monica so you could explore something romantic with her? No, I'm actually gay. Oh, okay.

I feel like that's more substantive.

Yeah.

Okay, so you are a nurse, I presume? I'm an emergency room nurse. For how long?

Okay, so you have a juicy story. I'm sure you've got many, but you have pared it down to this one.

Oh, I do.

Will you tell us about the levels? I've never heard it being described as level one or two or three.

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And is protocol to kind of, for lack of a better word, anesthetize them? Do you want to get them on some kind of benzo to calm everyone down?

This is the worst kind of bomb threat, I'm going to say.

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Evan, have you spent any time trying to get into the mind of why that would be satisfying? I can generally find my way into understanding people's motives, but I don't even understand what the pleasure of that is. Other than if I just had this total ire for government and I wanted to keep fucking up municipalities, I can't really get it.

Well, they say that about arsonists, that they often are there watching the fire.

Yeah, you're like the Marines. My first thought as someone who's always thinking about mechanical stuff is like, well, certainly among those 50 patients, some of them have to be hooked to machines to stay alive that require electricity. Are there generators that are put out in the parking lot or are there battery supplies on these carts?

The Sharky Sharky Duchess. Yes. We need to do these more. We need to do these as regularly as poopy your pants because nurses deliver.

Not going to live. What? We're not going to live in LA? Or are they going to shut down hospitals?

Okay. I'm just not sure what thing we're going to. Just do it. We're afraid to leave LA? I just don't want to go to the hospital. Okay. Okay. We're knocking on wood because L.A. has so many good hospitals.

Just do it.

Oh, man, that is. Thank you, Evan, so much for sharing that story with us.

Okay, I'm just going to ask you one simple question before we go, because the previous nurse we just spoke with said that every single nurse has a foreign object in rectum story. You don't need to tell it. Just do you have a foreign object in rectum story? I have many. Oh, well, yeah, you were in L.A. They always fall onto it.

I was attacked by my shampoo bottle.

Shit, maybe we need our own prompt. Oh, rectal. What was it called?

Not objects.

Yeah, he said foreign body. She said foreign body and you said foreign body. I just want to get the prompt right. Well, I'll submit another one.

Okay, well, great meeting you, Evan. Thank you so much for your job.

Keep it up. Thank you. We will. You too. All right, be well. Bye.

I'd like to open it up to everybody. Because maybe someone will be brave enough to tell foreign body and their own rectum story. Because I want to know how you lose control of it. Because you must have a game plan. Obviously, you're only going to insert so much of it. And then you go too far. And then I guess you lose grip. Then you try to get it out and it just goes up.

Oh, a bad actor?

Can you hear us?

Oh, beautifully. Is this Tori?

I just want you to know that I was just on a trip with eight people and all eight of us got it. So I'm with you. I'm in the noro camp.

It gets scary when you're pregnant, right? It ups the ante a lot.

I'm going to go out on a limb right now. You're the first of four nurses we're going to talk to. And the second I saw your face, I literally was like, oh, right. Nurses are the most fun people on the planet.

Oh, really?

She is.

Yeah, let it rip.

I got to tell you, you are a second Canadian.

Anyone that can see the shit you guys see hourly and be laughing and smiling. I mean, that's my kind of people.

So goes the adage. Where are you at, Peyton?

Okay.

It's charming, no?

Because he doesn't know what the fuck's going on.

But a troubled past. Is that what you wanted to say? Or a beating around the bush that the most horrific thing ever happened there. Is that palpable when you're there or have people moved on?

Oh. Do you ever get to see the people when they return to sanity?

Wow.

Wow. Was there any point having not had any family members in it and maybe not having the correct expectations for the job? Were there moments at the beginning where you're like, oh, fuck this. I didn't choose right. Or did you immediately know it was for you?

Yeah, you have a finite capacity and then you have a real life outside of it. And maybe you're sleep deprived and maybe you're having a marital issue and you add all these things together. It's impossible. I will say it's prepared you nicely to have a child, though.

Yeah, Tori, I'm so sorry you're feeling so ill, but congratulations on your impending baby time. And it was great meeting you. And thank you for telling us that story.

Feel better. Take a nice nap now. And thanks so much for railing.

All right. Take care.

Chew your catheter out.

Yeah, I got a little claustrophobic at the thought of a seven-point harness.

That happened with my dad when he had this very massive head-on collision when I was in eighth grade. And I had to go to the hospital, and they said basically go in and say goodbye. He's unconscious. I went in there, and his head was like the size of a basketball. And he woke up while I was in there. And the first thing he did is pulled the breathing tube out.

And I was begging him, no, daddy, you need that, you need that. Oh my God, it was so stressful.

God bless the nurses. Yeah, they're incredible. Again, round of applause. We love them. We love them. I love you. Love you. That delivered.

Yeah. I'm going to add, I have another stereotype, not just about nurses, but I have a stereotype about Minnesotans. I would argue that Minnesotans are like Michiganders, but a little even elevated.

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Holy smokes, do they deliver.

They have so much Scandinavian in them, right, that they're modest by nature. They hate attention and acclaim. So it's kind of the same stock as Michigan, but they have this nice layer of humility, I'd say.

Oh, good. Yeah.

Well, home of Prince. Any place that can claim Prince.

Okay. I'm sure you've racked up many stories as a nurse, but you're going to hit us with one in particular.

Oh, perfect. I just ate, this is great.

Well, evolutionarily, it has to be the one where most repulse.

It is. Boy, they go through it all. Heroes. Day in and day out. I love nurses so much.

Do you guys ever put anything under your nose?

Yeah, you did. Oh, have you tried that?

Don't try that because I don't want you to choke.

Oh, grandma.

Old Monica.

What's that?

She really waited a while, it sounds like. She got through most of her life with this gap.

They're just a party in their stories.

You can see grandma's brain? No. We can see granny's brain.

Bingo.

Am I right to assume that's the last thing you want infected?

Yeah. And positive.

Stop it! Yes.

Nurses have all the deets.

Don't victim shame her.

And funny.

She said she likes to. She wants to make mittens happy.

Well, they eat their face. Yeah, yeah. The cat got a little ahead of itself. I think the cat was like, Grandma's dying and dead, and I can't wait.

To get through.

Because someone needed to go in there surgically and get rid of this necrotic flesh and everything.

Pull the cat babies out of her.

Mittens kittens.

And what was her spirits? She sounds very nice.

Madness?

Maybe you can say madness.

What ended up happening to Granny? She got a room, obviously.

Well, that's good. And would you have heard if she had passed in that upstairs room? Would they have told you? Probably. Okay. So I think all signs point to she's probably with mittens now on her lap.

Peyton, what if you saw her boogieing down the sidewalk on all fours with the most agility you'd ever seen?

What an experiment. I have a hunch we're going to talk to you again because I'm sure you were probably debating which story to even tell.

That really puts a new spin on cat lady.

Do you think that's Laura's dream in life?

Rectum.

To have her brain licked by her cat.

Oh, what a joy that was. Thank you.

Of course. Oh, you're as cute as they come. Look at the symmetry. It's completely homogeneous.

And your teeth are that nice.

Foreign body.

Is there one moment that was your favorite?

any anonymous but we just listened to the munchausen by proxy andrea dunlop i don't have munchausen want to say oh yeah thank you for clarifying well you guys don't have a child yet no you can still have it with a partner and but it's most common for the mother to be in the medical yeah we'll let you know okay keep us updated on that well again we were going to talk to you about another nurse story but it might be like tell us about a story of inflicting munchausens on your child i'll wait for that prompt for sure

Foreign body. We learned that all nurses have a foreign body and rectum story, which is exciting as all hell. Please enjoy Nurses Part 2. We are supported by Mint Mobile. It's time to leave your overpriced wireless plans jaw-dropping monthly bills and unexpected overages. Get huge savings with Mint Mobile. They're offering any three-month plan for only 15 bucks a month, even their unlimited plan.

Well, delightful meeting both of you. Good luck down there in Virginia. Thank you very much. So nice to meet you. Bye. Hello. Is this Lucy?

How you doing? Have we caught you at work?

And if there were any doubt of the validity to your claim of being a nurse, you are currently in scrubs, which really lends to your case.

Oh, and where are you in the country?

OK, so I assume you have a kabillion stories you could have told. Did you have a hard time whittling it down to which one?

Farming accidents.

Oh, like in the bush, you mean?

Oh, wow.

Who would have thought nursing could take you as many places as like a flight attendant?

So this would be the one you're at a dinner party and they want to hear a story. This is the one you always reel out.

Great. Because I was going to say the times I've had to go to the doctor and talk about something I just really don't want to talk about. I have decided I'm willing to tell this one person. In your mind, you've committed to that. And then you get there and you start realizing, no, I'm going to have to tell many people. And I hate that. Is that common?

Where like they don't really want to tell you because they've already decided only one person shall ever know this.

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Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to Armchair Expert early and ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts, or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Anonymous. I'm Dan Rather, and I'm joined by Mrs. Mouse. Today is Crazy X. Tell us about your Crazy X. People have Crazy Xs out there. They do.

Oh, my God. Now we're veering into psychopath territory.

Can I ask you a question? And I don't want to victim shame, but it is always curious to me. And I just want to explore why people are very resistant to calling the police. Did you want to call the police? Did you call the police? Why didn't you call the police?

I'm so sorry, ladies. It's so scary.

Oh, man.

Yeah, it's like a movie.

Oh, he redacted things. This is so creepy. Hey, Jackie, when you were with him for the year and a half, did you get any sense that he was, like, unstable? Other than the, like, controlling stuff, was he dealing with other issues in his life in a bizarre way? Yeah.

Sure. Well, he's trying to control you and you're probably pushing back and it's probably endless.

Wow.

It's a weird testament to the power of journaling, but here we are. I'm shocked he gave it to you. I would have thought maybe he'd want it for himself.

And was that truly it? Did you never bump into him again?

God, that's what makes these things so complicated and maddening. Like how is anyone to figure out which one will get over it and which one's going to escalate? And like you're dealing with something that's kind of illogical and already doesn't make much sense. And yeah, it must be so stressful trying to figure out like how serious is this threat?

Yeah.

I hate how many women have these stories. I really hate it.

Now, when the show Nurse Jackie came out, were you delighted or upset?

Oh, my goodness. Look at this wonderful sound booth you've constructed.

Heather, thanks for listening as well.

All right. Nice meeting you. Take care.

I'm a sweet pie. Yeah. I want her as a nurse.

It is. You're just like in an innocent relationship in college and it turns into this horror show. Dude, someone trashed my apartment.

I mean, they're not afraid of the law.

I'm trying to think of the grossest, weirdest thing I've done in a breakup.

You know, slash tires and smash windshields. No. Oh, my God. I was my worst self when I got cheated on in 12th grade.

Well, I tried to fight the boy who fucked her.

How dare you? I'm going to go to your house now. He was really good. He was gentle. He was really, really good. Yeah. Best lovemaking of her life.

Nice to meet you, Chris. You look like you could definitely be in Leonard Skinner.

You got a real Skinner look and I love it.

Ooh, nice. I love how people from Louisville say Louisville.

Yeah.

But behind you, too, there's a lot of nice sound dampening.

Oh, sure, sure, sure. Okay, so you have a crazy ex, which is a bit of a relief, I gotta say, because we've talked to two women, and it's just... And they're horrific stories. Yeah, they're horrific, and these poor women are terrified. So if we can hear from a terrified man, that would help right the ship a little bit.

Already, you're a much better guy than most. You're totally okay with that. That's great.

Yeah, you respected her.

Oh, my God. Perfect. How old's your baby?

Congratulations.

Does he smell delicious?

I guess I'll see you tomorrow. Yes, you're right. I guess we're still together.

It goes on for quite a while. Are we using your real name?

So, okay. I'm going to, okay. Now I'm just going to let this proceed.

And so you're not named after Carly Simon because you would have spelled it differently.

Yeah, this conversation right now would be about visitation rights, not about where we're going to buy a house.

Thank God.

Right.

So it's your buddies fucking with you. They're like pranking people from your phone or you're participating.

OK, great.

Oh, Chris.

Yeah, that's kind of.

You're in your cleanest T-shirt.

Yeah.

You got your hands full.

Yeah. I feel like that's on a questionnaire sometimes. Like, have you ever had a restraining order filed against you? It's not like being labeled a sex offender, but it's not great.

Monica's not going to like that takeaway, but I feel very confirmed in my fear. There should be professionals. There should be like sex workers. There's singular businesses taking virginity.

I guess that's permitted.

Well, Chris, it's a damn delight to meet you.

Thank you both. All right. Take care, Chris.

You like when people spell names. You and I have talked about this in the past, Monica.

I thought a baby was going to answer the call when they pranked her. Oh, it's been nine months. That's what you thought the big twist was. And the baby answered and said, Dada? The baby knew his number. I thought she was going to threaten to hurt herself because that's pretty common. That can happen.

People get really emotional and they act unpredictably.

I guess the title is Crazy Acts. Fuck with you.

If we did an episode where we got to air one thing about one another that was really inconsequential, but that we couldn't accept, would you know what yours would be?

You like that, yeah.

Okay. You have a crazy ex. I mean, everyone does, but you have a crazy ex that we're going to hear about.

It is. Lauren. Can you hear us?

Yes. I'm going to take up two seconds of your time because we're going to have a real life thing in front of you, OK?

So while it was ringing, I said to Monica, let's do an episode where we both air something about one another that's really inconsequential. We shouldn't care, but we want the person to change that. And then you answered.

Yep, because it just happened. Why won't you put your phone on do not disturb? You know, it won't vibrate if you put it on do not disturb. And I hear it through all the interviews downstairs, and I hear it nonstop. It was ringing off the hook yesterday in our back-to-back interviews.

I have suggested do not disturb many times.

It's your turn, though.

I love the way this went. But Lauren, do you do a show that is audio centric where like audio is kind of important?

There you go. Thank you. But see, this is great and I'm open to it. That's okay. Tell me. I can take it. We're best friends. You know what it is? My great curiosity is, do you know you can do that?

great defense.

Are you afraid you'll forget to turn it back on to focus? Because I could remind you at the end of every episode.

Okay. Are you glad you got to be privy to this? Because this is what happens quite often.

Did you think you didn't have it? Is that what you were just about to say? Shut up. Okay. Lauren, you have a very nice closet. And I'm seeing some kind of snake skinny platform things behind me that are exciting.

And what I notice you're doing, and I wonder, I want to ask Monica if she does this too, you have one shoe that points out and one shoe that points in. Is that what you do too, Monica? I do. Should I be doing that?

What the fuck? We'll set the stage for us.

Okay, that makes a lot of sense. Yeah, am I going one inch, three inch? Where are we at?

Will you feel it's an invasive question if I ask how tall you are?

That's lovely. That's a good height. Minnie and Mighty.

Where are you at in the world?

Wait, isn't there an Okie from Muskogee? Isn't that a thing?

That's right. It's a Merle Haggard song.

An oaky from Muskogee. Do you know that term, Monica? I've heard it, yeah. That's so good. An oaky from Muskogee. Wow.

God bless those outlaws that were just singing it from the roof. You know, famously, do you know this, Monica? Willie Nelson, when he was invited to the White House, he went up on the roof and smoked a joint.

That's pretty cool, right?

Uh, Lincoln.

I bet it was Carter. That's going to be my guess. Maybe Rob will figure that out while we're talking. You're right. It's Carter.

Ah, he and Chip banged a doobie up there on the White House. That's great.

If there was anyone who would not be bummed when they walked outside to see that weed smoking, it'd be Carter.

Oh, it's incredible. It's really cool. Okay. Okay, Lauren. You got a story for us. You have a crazy ex.

Not baby's daddy.

Oil and gas.

Dingles, dingles, dingles.

What was it about him that tickled your fancy? Was he gorgeous or something?

And a hard work in town.

That's mildly comforting. We're not talking murder.

They're at the bar and at Chili's too.

I think I have one. But I don't think it was realized till after. Now this, I got to give a disclaimer to this. Obviously, this should have been foreseen. Obviously, Crazy X entails some stalking. So if that's an experience you had, this probably- Isn't for you. You want to skip it.

He has nothing to do with this whole situation.

You're an angel.

Oh, my God. Lauren, what a plot twist. I don't know why. This might be unfair to people with this condition. But when I think of these flashers in the train, I can't wrap my head around. If I'm filling in the blanks, I'm assuming that person's the weirdest motherfucker and I would be able to detect that.

I am very shocked he admitted to all that, to be honest with you. I'm surprised he didn't go like, this person pissed me off and I'm like, I'm going to show him my dick. Like, that's pretty wild he came clean like that.

Yeah, what were your follow-up questions? You must have just been dumbfounded.

They can't hold you. If they set a bail, they set a call.

I've read that. What they're after is they like the look on the person's face. The shock. Did he say that?

Did you, by the way, I would not be judgmental. In fact, maybe I'd even admire this about you because you could go like, yeah, you need to go get punished, but also you could have compassion for him. I don't want that condition.

This could be potentially really heartbreaking, Lauren. Like if I was so in love with someone and I found out they had this thing, that would not be easy. It's not like I go like, oh, great. So now I don't feel all the ways I've always felt about them.

I mean, you had a lot going on.

Too much for me.

Yeah.

Keeping his pants on.

Wow. I didn't see that. Delightful ending coming our way.

Although, I will say, normally when you have to call off a wedding, you have to go like, yeah, I just decided I didn't want to be with them forever. But this is like so clean. It turns out he's a flasher.

Wait, can I ask you one quick question? I guess this is maybe a PSA for dudes. My hunch is he was telling you how cool graffiti was and I'm going to crew and brother, this is awesome. You probably weren't ever that enthralled by it, but you're probably placating him like, oh, cool, hon. Yeah, pretty much. It's hard for us to know us boys.

Wow. Pull up a chair, gals.

I just might feel more in love with them than I actually was because I wasn't allowed to be with them for a reason that was out of my control. I feel like it's just ripe for that.

It's not good. Let's add that to the list of things to fix.

Well, Lauren, thank you for telling us that. And thanks for mediating our conflict at the beginning. And your story was so good. Now we're feeling good. Yeah. And me too.

All right. Well, be well. Thank you so much.

All right. Take care. Oh my God, that gal is so positive.

I said part of my question was something insignificant you shouldn't care about. So I owned how trivial this is.

Well, yeah, because it distracts me. I get worried the guest is like, who's ringing this? I'm going to answer that.

They don't care.

That was wild. We got kind of every variety of that.

Like we're trying to tell you about this thing and you're being nice. And then we're misled to think this is cool.

Well, no, no. I think the rule is pretty clear. It's would you stick around as they tackled this problem?

That's fair. You would never stick with someone who's not going to address it. But if you love someone and they're going to work their ass off on this thing, I think you would stick around for that.

yikes also if you saw the look on someone you love's face of the shame when they told you i do think i know that'd be very powerful yeah again it's all how they say it if they get like defensive and denying but no but if someone just has that moment where they come clean and they're full of shame i think the best part of us would want to help that person figure it out

All right.

Focus.

You get graffitied.

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Can I ask how long you were together?

No! Oh, I love this part. It's like the Outsiders.

Now, this is a question Monica would never ask, but I will because I'm a boy. Who won and lost? Was there winners and losers?

Everyone's a loser here.

I just want to know if your valiant boyfriend prevailed.

Spray pink hands.

I was open to the notion you were going to say they had a tag off, like a dance off. Like they got to a rail yard and they're like, you've got that train car. We've got this one. Let's see whose piece is fucking better.

It made him unravel. Yes. Well, in his defense, he doesn't deserve any defense. But boy, there couldn't be anything rougher than your ex going to your hero.

impossible coincidence. How did it resolve?

Did the fight resolve anything? Did he stop tagging up? No, no, no. Of course. It rarely does, I suppose.

Yeah. Skip the first two. Just skip the whole fucking thing.

That's a very freaky experience to be walking around and go like, oh, he was there. Oh, he's there.

Well, what he's doing is peeing on things. Yeah. Like a dog.

How long were you with the OG guy?

Is your current husband a misfit of any kind?

Did you ever hear through the grapevine? Did he outgrow his angsty shit? And is he an artist now?

Go get a burrito and a Diet Coke and two martinis and kick your feet up. It's Friday. Enjoy the day off. You've got a day off. No homework today.

You just gave me a great idea, Rob. Write down, have you ever dated a drug dealer? So you could probably do a different prompt. Like he have randoms show up at the house. Was he dealing out of the house or would he meet people places? And how much money was he making doing this? Was he like fly and had a bunch of around town money?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Okay. He was dealing in like kilos and stuff.

Oh, wow. How has it permanently impacted your association with graffiti? When you see graffiti, you just go like, he's fucking clowns. Do you like it?

Yeah. Very immature.

I find myself conflicted about it. I'll see some, and it's great. It is. It's art. It's beautiful. But then this happens more in Europe, particularly Paris. You'll see this incredible marble statue that is 600 years old in some arrogant... fucking narcissist spray painted all over it to get his own glory. It's got to be a him. And I'm like, those make me irrationally upset.

Yeah, exactly.

Well, Carly, what's clear from this conversation is you're a catch. Everyone's lining up. That's right. You're spending no time alone. So congrats.

You went two, six, and then married. It's lovely meeting you.

Oh, thank her on my behalf.

Well, lovely meeting you. Shout out to mom. Thank you, mom. Keep consuming all those things. And shout out sister and best friend.

All right, take care. Ooh.

Do you want to look at my veins, you pervert?

You're in a doctor's office, so my presumption was you like veins.

Oh, okay. We're not preventing someone from medical care.

Okay. Jackie, are we using your real name?

Wonderful. And where in the world are you other than a doctor's office?

We don't get a lot of New Orleans callers.

It was Malcolm. Yeah, it's like becoming a woman's college.

That whole area around there, the Garden District and all that stuff is so dreamy.

Oh, wow. And where are you from originally?

That's a big move.

Oh, my God. Are you a Virgo?

Girls. I love that.

Do you find when Monica and I have dust-ups that you being the same age and a Virgo, are you always on her side?

Okay. Okay. You're giving us a very fair shake.

We got a big update today. And you'll even get a visual.

Oh. Okay, Jackie, you have a crazy ex story and we're dying to hear it.

You know, it's funny, Jackie, that you would say that as we've only talked to one other person and it immediately occurred to me, these are generally probably going to be stalkers.

And when you're naive, I guess there's some side of you that it's flattering, right? Like, oh my God, he thinks I'm so hot. It's dangerous if I am wearing...