Dan Shepard

And you were promoting at the time why we're polarized.

Yeah.

Which again, and I may have said it in our first interview, but it's like, I've had a very interesting parasocial observation of you over the years, and it's evolved, which is there was moments, I think I was probably introduced to you in your wonderful arguments with Sam Harris.

And I think maybe at that time, I had diagnosed you as left of me.

And I do consider myself liberal.

And then I was like, he might be too liberal for me.

But then you made some points against Sam that I was like, oh, he's incredibly empathetic.

You were in a debate about who Sam would come to the rescue of and how obvious it was to you that these people, he seemed to think that they had been persecuted unfairly, which makes so much sense because he himself felt like he was persecuted unfairly.

And just how transparent the motivation was.

And I was like, that's such an intuitive and empathic thing to bring into this debate that could just be about policies or this or that.

So then I was like, I really appreciate this guy.

And then I think I'm right to think that over the years, we seem to have some similar concerns, which is it's kind of a non-functional thing.

Two camps that ruin everything and a lack of maybe pragmatism and a lack of results from both sides.

And just for me, kind of a little bit of disgust with the whole proposition.

Not one side or the other, more than the other, just my goodness, this can't be the way forward.

That's where we totally agree.

Like, Monica now often, and she's right, she'll be like, you have a lot of shit to say about the left.

I don't hear you saying much about the right.

And to me, I'm like, A, it's kind of self-evident what I hate about the right.

B, the right's not listening to me.