Daniel McConnell

being in control or not of a department, the system, fighting the system at some point.

Again, Peter, you listened to it, so what did you think?

But then also pressing him about, you know, how to actually move things forward.

Like, I mean, like, and he kind of reveals that, like, the permanent government or the civil service are not averse to kind of playing games or, you know, using tricks or devices to slow things down, even when a government decision has been taken.

Because of a lack of paper clips here, we haven't been able to move forward.

He clearly has leadership ambitions.

He's not going to push me all Martin under a bus.

Yeah.

And he talked a lot about having a good working relationship and blah, blah, blah and the usual kind of stuff.

But, you know, kind of the last question, you know, there's lots of people in your party who would want a dub leader.

Well, I'm a dub too.

So there's a sense in that.

Put two and two together.

You know, so... And I think, you know, for him, he is just trying to make sure that he can show some real success and progress in the two areas because I think...

When we did get into it a little bit in terms of the policy stuff, you know, delays in the energy stuff because of planning, there's delays in the transport area again because of planning.

And I think one of the most shocking revelations he said, because of the spending code, because of the state's own steps that they have to put, you know, to get funding approval, it added an extra 100 million onto the cost of it.

I was just going to say.

I was just like, I hear like.

Now, there will probably always be an element of waste in a bureaucracy.

There will always be an element of waste in terms of megaprojects or whatever like that.