Darby Saxbe

Whereas men, I think, can be more fully affectionate and cuddly and nurturing with girls because it's like they can try out that more feminine side of their personality without constraint.

Interesting.

So I think it does kind of open up like a different way of relating that can be really healthy for men.

Yeah.

So, Christina, you will like my book.

I have a whole chapter on masculinity, which is kind of about this exact question of like what is going on with masculinity and fatherhood.

Yeah.

And I think it is this kind of tale of two cities where it's like the most educated affluent dads are really more hands-on as parents and are kind of like...

showing this different model of fatherhood that is more invested.

But you also have this huge influence of the manosphere, which is telling young men... All cheating scenarios, 100% the blame is always on the female.

Like, treat women like disposable sex objects and don't get trapped because, like, women are just trying to use you for child support.

So, like, these really hostile messages.

And so I worry, A, that there's kind of a class and education divide that is emerging that's also politically polarized.

Yeah.

And it does, it seems somewhat antithetical to really good fatherhood.

So it's just like we're kind of in these like diverging trend lines.

Some dads are getting better at fatherhood.

Some men are totally disinvesting from fatherhood.

And we need to be really aware, I think, of the cultural narratives that we're propagating.

It's a great question because it's so hard to intervene with other people's parenting.