Darren Shand

When I first started, I was Graham Henry's boss.

How Graham and I worked is he said, I just want to coach, can you do everything else?

The All Blacks was a business category and I'm effectively the CEO.

We're a start-up.

We had nothing.

We found a way to work together.

Steve, Wayne, Graham, Gilbert, myself and Sir Brian.

We just found a way and we knew we had to do it differently and we had the courage to try.

When we started, and you've got the Fitzy, Zinni era, and they were motivated by fear.

Fear of letting the country down.

When anyone comes in, you've immediately got 77% winning record across histories.

You start with that and you're like, well, if we're going to be afraid of that, we're not going to...

achieve anything that's why the storytelling matters like what will our story be during that period we developed this book for every player leather bound had your all black number on the front of it and after your first test match you'd be presented this book in the middle of the book was a picture of you in your first test match wearing the all black jersey the back of the book was empty blank pages that's where you write your story

I was sad that we lost so much of what we were so good at.

Mark Robinson was a player that I worked with in the Crusaders.

At the end of 23, he's coming around to my house to say, well, you're done, mate.

I certainly think my last two or three years weren't my best years.

My marriage finished.

I was really battling with depression myself.

In hindsight, I'm glad I got told to go, actually.