Darren Shand

And I think particularly for me, what grew even more, like the operational stuff is easy.

That's just a system.

You just build that and it happens.

But the growth of the commercial side of the game, the expectations from media,

grew.

How do we still stay in touch with fans when we're these icons of sport?

All of that consumed me.

Security became a massive issue for us travelling the world because of 9-11 and all of those things.

So in a lot of ways, I got further away from the game in some senses because that became so massive.

And particularly my last years, I felt quite isolated, not as connected as I'd been earlier.

But that was the way it had gone.

That was the highlight.

What a privilege to sit sideline with the boys at every test, just this close to the action.

I love that.

Yeah.

And I love the pressure of it.

I'm not really a rugby man, but I just, yeah, I just, I love the competition and I love listening to the banter on the bench and watching these guys get ready to go.

So one of the tasks I had to do was present a sheet to the match manager on arrival at the stadium, all the players listed with their correct numbers.

So I did that for that test.

We're in the second half of a test match.