Dave Davies

Let's take a break here and then we'll talk some more.

We're speaking with Chris Jennings.

His new book is End of Days, Ruby Ridge, the Apocalypse, and the Unmaking of America.

He'll be back to talk more after this short break.

I'm Dave Davies, and this is Fresh Air.

This is now an FBI operation and obviously it's a much more high profile and high powered operation.

And a decision is made by some leaders in the FBI to change the rules of engagement for the use of deadly force in this instance.

Tell us about that.

Trevor Burrus And the assumption again was that the Weavers had already been warned that federal agents, you should surrender.

In fact, the only one who had gotten that warning was Randy Weaver on that one encounter the next day where one of the marshals said,

you know, drop it, Randy, and he didn't.

So there was an assumption at work there that wasn't actually true.

The plan here, though, was negotiators would approach the cabin in an armored personnel carrier and would call for surrender on loudspeakers, drop off a siege phones that the weavers could use to communicate for negotiations.

That was the plan.

What actually happened?

Right.

So inside the cabin, the Weaver family stays there for the next 10 days with Vicki Weaver's body.

And since she was hit in the head by this high-powered rifle, one can only imagine what that was like for her children.

And they stay there for 10 days, right, expecting that this is an ongoing attack and the end is going to come.

They would come up to the door in the armored personnel carrier and say, Vicki, come out, Vicki.