Dave Davies

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I want to take one more break here. Let me reintroduce you. We are speaking with Philip Sheenan, a veteran investigative reporter. His new book is Jesus Wept, Seven Popes and the Battle for the Soul of the Catholic Church. We'll continue our conversation after this break. This is Fresh Air.

I want to take one more break here. Let me reintroduce you. We are speaking with Philip Sheenan, a veteran investigative reporter. His new book is Jesus Wept, Seven Popes and the Battle for the Soul of the Catholic Church. We'll continue our conversation after this break. This is Fresh Air.

I want to take one more break here. Let me reintroduce you. We are speaking with Philip Sheenan, a veteran investigative reporter. His new book is Jesus Wept, Seven Popes and the Battle for the Soul of the Catholic Church. We'll continue our conversation after this break. This is Fresh Air.

Well, I want to talk about Pope Francis, the current pope who, as you and I record this, is suffering from pneumonia. I hope he does well and recovers. He was elected in 2013, and he took the name of Francis of Assisi, the 13th century cleric who wore rags and focused on the needs of the poor. It's interesting that when he took office—

Well, I want to talk about Pope Francis, the current pope who, as you and I record this, is suffering from pneumonia. I hope he does well and recovers. He was elected in 2013, and he took the name of Francis of Assisi, the 13th century cleric who wore rags and focused on the needs of the poor. It's interesting that when he took office—

Well, I want to talk about Pope Francis, the current pope who, as you and I record this, is suffering from pneumonia. I hope he does well and recovers. He was elected in 2013, and he took the name of Francis of Assisi, the 13th century cleric who wore rags and focused on the needs of the poor. It's interesting that when he took office—

The initial impression kind of reminds you of John XXIII, the guy who initiated the Second Vatican Council in that Francis sort of rejected some of the finer trappings of the office. Tell us about that.

The initial impression kind of reminds you of John XXIII, the guy who initiated the Second Vatican Council in that Francis sort of rejected some of the finer trappings of the office. Tell us about that.

The initial impression kind of reminds you of John XXIII, the guy who initiated the Second Vatican Council in that Francis sort of rejected some of the finer trappings of the office. Tell us about that.

So, you know, what about some of the rules that had been in place for so long that had been controversial, like the refusal to provide communion to Catholics who had been divorced, giving, you know, sacraments to gay couples, that kind of thing? What's actually changed?

So, you know, what about some of the rules that had been in place for so long that had been controversial, like the refusal to provide communion to Catholics who had been divorced, giving, you know, sacraments to gay couples, that kind of thing? What's actually changed?

So, you know, what about some of the rules that had been in place for so long that had been controversial, like the refusal to provide communion to Catholics who had been divorced, giving, you know, sacraments to gay couples, that kind of thing? What's actually changed?

And what about the attitude towards birth control and abortion? Any change there?

And what about the attitude towards birth control and abortion? Any change there?

And what about the attitude towards birth control and abortion? Any change there?

One of the ways that a pope has impact apart from what he says about doctrine and practice is who he appoints. I mean there's a lot of authority. They appoint cardinals. And I'm wondering – it seems you think that there might be some liberalizing impact of his appointments within the Vatican, right?

One of the ways that a pope has impact apart from what he says about doctrine and practice is who he appoints. I mean there's a lot of authority. They appoint cardinals. And I'm wondering – it seems you think that there might be some liberalizing impact of his appointments within the Vatican, right?