Dave McIntyre

Look, I'm okay to say that, John.

from back to front every day and he watches every sport since he recently acquired Sky Sports so I assumed he would jump at the chance to listen to the podcast unfortunately he shut me down and said he preferred the paper because there are 20 plus contributors every Monday to go through

We then got talking about journalism and how it works, et cetera, et cetera.

And he was just saying it would be something I'd be interested in.

If people were comfortable sharing how they got into the profession in the first place.

And I was thinking about you, Dave, thinking, how does one become a commentator?

How do you embark on that journey?

Another crowd said, take him.

You personally, Evan, did you deliberately continue to change and evolve as the years changed?

Because, you know, you went Guardian, Telegraph, Joe, but then even Joe was website editor, podcasts, UK, digital space, now Fabric Social.

You know, you've constantly production in there as well.

So it's always something different.

Well, yeah, I mean, I think...

And if you find that hard over the years, John, the change in media landscape in terms of you're still producing long-form journalism, but asking the journalists to also then, like we're talking about Rory O'Connor, who's mastered a podcast now, doing loads of video, doing loads of long-form analysis.

and next thing 18 years of camp hard work and perseverance is the way in rugby it seems now that's the only way to even win matches entertainment's gone out the window it seems to be trending the same way as football is trending it's physical it's set pieces Anthony Gordon was talking ahead of

the Champions League.

And he didn't so much say the game's gone, but he was touching on that.

He was saying that it's all hard work and perseverance.

I think his point was... I don't think he... I think people were crediting him for a point they didn't really make, but I think he tried to make that point so people just rammed with it anyway.

I think his point was...