David Boree

Alice and Ziz have been in contact for years.

And in fact, Alice, because she's an older, more established rationalist,

When Ziz was kind of new to the community, had sent Ziz an article on the Gervais principle for the first time, which had spawned her ideas about needing to jailbreak people into psychopathy.

And at varying times, Ziz would claim Alice as a mentor.

There are some very vague accounts that Alice has done some problematic, abusive stuff in the community.

I don't know how true any of that is, but this is what people talk about.

And I think Ziz may have had a break with her over some sort of disagreement.

Because it seems like, from what I can tell, Jamie, who is dating Alice at the time, is in direct contact with Ziz and interested in her, but also is not communicating with Ziz under her real name.

She is making a bunch of sock puppet accounts on her blog, and she is specifically commenting and trying to engage Ziz in different conversations, pretending to be multiple different people online.

to quote unquote sabotage the hold she believed another woman in the community, Emma Borhanian, had on Ziz.

And Borhanian is that former Google engineer.

Okay.

So this is, you know, this is part of the messy thing is that like, these people are all influencing each other and trying to like, their kind of go-to is like mind games to fuck with each other's heads.

Mm-mm.

No.

Now, Emma Borhanian, who Jamie alleges has like- Jamie's girlfriend.

No, Jamie's dating Alice Munday.

Borhanian is this former Google engineer who has been with Ziz since the Rationalist Fleet days.

And Jamie thinks that she's controlling Ziz and she has like this bad influence that's leading them in a bad direction.

And I've read Borhanian's blog too because of course I had to.