David Cooper

And George famously says, it's not a lie if you believe it.

For people who lie very confidently, does their body still give them away?

Sure, yeah, yeah.

And when you do, will you still show off those subtle signs or you don't know based on this research?

Why do you think we self-deceive in little ways?

Is it sort of like a coping strategy, a way to boost your self-esteem without the full stress of lying or the full embarrassment of lying if you get caught?

Like maybe I just say I'm slightly better at a sport than I am and I kind of believe it when I say it.

I feel like people do this a lot and why?

Yeah, I'm imagining our ancestors.

If you liked me slightly more, you'd be more likely to share the food with me.

I'd be more likely to survive.

Exactly.

Look, the title of your research paper says or sort of suggests that the body knows what the mind doesn't.

So I guess my last question is, if our bodies are giving off these tiny signals, are we less good at lying than we think we are?

Yeah.

Well, it sounds like we're okay liars, I guess is the bottom line.

Well, Julia, I've enjoyed this chat.

Thanks so much for talking to me.

I appreciate you coming on the show.

Giulia Romano Cappi is a researcher in social neuroscience at the University of Turin in Italy.