David DeSteno

I think it depends on exactly how you define those terms.

So the data on religion and spirituality show a few things.

One, I want to make it clear that

What the data really look at is what's called religious or spiritual engagement.

So it's not just saying, I believe in God.

It is, are you actually going to services?

If you're a person who is following a more Eastern philosophy, are you actually meditating?

Are you doing the things that you're supposed to do in a faith?

You know, in most of the world, religion is really about more of what you do than what you believe.

But in the U.S., we have this notion because of Christianity that it's just about creed.

But if you look at people who are actually engaging in some type of spiritual life, their health outcomes are far better.

Lower all-cause mortality, 30% lower over a 15-year period.

Lower deaths due to cardiovascular disease and cancer.

Greater...

sense of meaning and flourishing in life, less depression.

That's not always the same thing as being happy.

I mean, on average, they're happy, right?

And I'm sure you and your listeners have talked about this a lot.

Being happy doesn't mean always being happy and never having kind of downturns or never suffering for the right reasons.

But in general, their physical and mental health outcomes and just general well-being and sense of flourishing are higher.