David DeSteno

And she said to the rabbi later, why did you not use the words?

He said, well, unlike you Americans, he said, we know what all these words mean.

And sometimes the words can kind of get in the way of what you're really feeling.

You know, they can be archaic, they can be gendered, they can not be hitting right.

And sometimes just the tones themselves allow you to express a feeling that you couldn't easily put into words.

And so sometimes not having the words is actually a way of speaking to the divine in a way that, you know, only the heart understands.

Yeah, in Judaism there's this whole...

way of praying that's called nigunim, and it's basically that, right?

Yeah, I think it, you know, not having ever done this practice myself, but people who have done it say it just feels like a way to express things.

and to get into a contemplative space that trying to put it into words would basically just get in the way of.

Probably.

There is a lot of work on...

The psychology of music and the neuroscience of music.

And there is this suggestion that it can put you in somewhat of an altered state at times and a state that allows for deeper feeling.

You know, one time on my show, we interviewed the pastor of the church.

This is a real church.

It's called the Church of St.

John Coltrane.

And Coltrane himself, I mean, I'm no Coltrane scholar, but Coltrane himself talked about music as a spiritual experience.

You know, instead of a sermon, they listen to his jazz.