David DeSteno

Now you're not waiting until you're like,

65, 70, where you're really feeling it, it's on death's door.

If you start contemplating in your 50s, you can reorient your values earlier in life.

And so I think that's where some of the wisdom comes around, these practices of life does have its seasons.

You know, in America, the season now is keep working until you die, because who knows if there's going to be social security or enough money or anything for you and your value is economically determined.

But if we can change that, I think our happiness as a society will actually increase.

Yeah.

I mean, this is a long-standing debate in some senses is –

is the spiritual life a luxury life, right?

That is, in some sense, that you have to have your material needs met before you can focus on this.

And that's why, you know,

Many people went to monasteries traditionally.

Become an ascetic.

And you went around with a begging bowl.

Right.

Because that's where you had the ability to do this.

And I completely agree with what you're saying.

Many people, because of the way society is structured and incentivized, don't have a way to do that.

And you and I don't have a way to change that by flipping a switch.

If you can...