David DeSteno

If it's not causing harm, and I know religion, the institutions of religion have caused harm to people.

I'm not in no way diminishing that.

But in general, the data suggests that it's good.

If you're having those amazing transcendent experiences and you're feeling this connection to something else and it is enriching your life, I think the notion that you have to logically reject it because there's no empirical data to support it is misguided.

You know, I mean, even Richard Dawkins, the world's most famous atheist, will say if push comes to shove, he can't entirely 100% be sure that God doesn't exist.

So why are we like having these debates?

You know, why are we telling people God must exist or you're a fool if you think he does?

You know, I think be open to what we don't understand.

And as long as it's rewarding and enriches your life, that's a good thing.

The first two are relatively easy.

And I know many people who have, who have

who have done both.

It's actually interesting right now, there's actually a resurgence among young men.

I'm sure your listeners have heard about the crisis of meaning young men are facing.

Certainly not the majority, but there is a sizable minority of young men who are turning back toward traditional faith, especially Christianity, to try and find meaning.

The third one has been tried lots of times, but often without any spiritual element.

So people will come together and they'll try and

agree on a certain set of, you know, principles and virtuous outcomes and things.

But those...

tend to fall apart because they don't have the rituals there that bind them together in the way that we're talking about, whether it's things like synchrony, cultivating gratitude, working toward empathy.