David Duvenaud

And I think that's going to be true in a lot of senses.

And then the point is just like, well, these are my values.

This is what I care about.

And maybe unless we really get a handle on a civilization, maybe we can't meaningfully participate in the future for all the reasons I laid out.

Yeah, I mean, I think so.

I mean, the thing is that also the winners are going to be forming alliances with the AIs, right?

Like think of like a tech CEO, like they're the ultimate people who are like forming an alliance with the AIs in a sense.

So it's, I mean, and if I think about like all of the most sort of like can do positive sum people that I know, they really, I think sort of can't be doomers by disposition, right?

They just want to build, they want to like let everyone participate, right?

Like this is again, like the amazing thing of liberalism is we all build and we all end up better off.

And so I think it's just going to be this rough middle ground of like some humans who sort of have a lot to lose but haven't fully participated in this like let's become tech CEOs and advocate for our own interests or like ensure our own interests get served by becoming trillionaires or whatever.

Those are going to be the people who are like, oh, wait, we actually need to try to preserve what is valuable about our current civilization.

Oh, absolutely.

And I guess I would say part of the reason I want to come on this podcast is to just do such an amateur job of insulting the naive version of this analysis that hopefully the sociologists and historians and economists and maybe the public intellectuals of the world or whatever will feel baited into saying, I can do a better job of analyzing these things than David.

And I'm like, please, please be my guest, right?

I'm a computer scientist.

I am an amateur in all these things.

And I think the big thing that's mostly been missing from people who have expertise that could and should, I think, be contributing to this is like...

I don't know, being a bit head in the sand about like, will there be machines that are competitive with humans in all domains?

And like, you know, economists will just run models that end up with, like end with machines being really good compliments to human labor.