David E. Sanger

Yeah, and this is the larger point of this memo, which is that the CIA is taking over U.S. foreign policy. It's out of the control of the president and the secretary of state because the CIA's role has grown too big. This is the kind of information the CIA keeps secret even today. How many people they have overseas, where they're stationed, how many officers are in each embassy. Yeah.

Yeah, and this is the larger point of this memo, which is that the CIA is taking over U.S. foreign policy. It's out of the control of the president and the secretary of state because the CIA's role has grown too big. This is the kind of information the CIA keeps secret even today. How many people they have overseas, where they're stationed, how many officers are in each embassy. Yeah.

And so you can see why when President Trump in his first term released these documents, this information was redacted. Even though it was old, this goes to how they operate. And they really like to keep those secrets out of the view of the public.

And so you can see why when President Trump in his first term released these documents, this information was redacted. Even though it was old, this goes to how they operate. And they really like to keep those secrets out of the view of the public.

That's right, Michael. This is a piece of evidence about the tensions between the CIA and the Kennedy administration. They did not like this idea of unchecked intelligence power. And That becomes the kernel of many conspiracy theories about why the CIA had it out for Kennedy.

That's right, Michael. This is a piece of evidence about the tensions between the CIA and the Kennedy administration. They did not like this idea of unchecked intelligence power. And That becomes the kernel of many conspiracy theories about why the CIA had it out for Kennedy.

From the beginning here, you can see the origins of this deep state idea that there is powers within the government that are operating without the regular checks and balances, without the direct control, the direct knowledge of the president. That makes any president nervous and... We can see that blossom generations later with President Trump.

From the beginning here, you can see the origins of this deep state idea that there is powers within the government that are operating without the regular checks and balances, without the direct control, the direct knowledge of the president. That makes any president nervous and... We can see that blossom generations later with President Trump.

Well, there's another document that was written for William Colby, who was the CIA director in the 1970s. He asked an aide to look into activities the CIA was up to that, quote, exceeded the charter.

Well, there's another document that was written for William Colby, who was the CIA director in the 1970s. He asked an aide to look into activities the CIA was up to that, quote, exceeded the charter.

Yeah. What he means there is the CIA is not supposed to operate in the United States. There are specific guidelines in terms of what the CIA does overseas. If the president doesn't directly authorize it, you're not supposed to do it. And there's clearly a belief there. by some around Colby that the agency had gone too far.

Yeah. What he means there is the CIA is not supposed to operate in the United States. There are specific guidelines in terms of what the CIA does overseas. If the president doesn't directly authorize it, you're not supposed to do it. And there's clearly a belief there. by some around Colby that the agency had gone too far.

And so this document, again, had come out before but had redactions. Now what we see is new material, again, about spying on the French, this time in the United States. We learned that the CIA not only was doing the eavesdropping, but they actually broke into the French consulate building. Wow. Yeah. And it is kind of an example of the CIA out of control. Right.

And so this document, again, had come out before but had redactions. Now what we see is new material, again, about spying on the French, this time in the United States. We learned that the CIA not only was doing the eavesdropping, but they actually broke into the French consulate building. Wow. Yeah. And it is kind of an example of the CIA out of control. Right.

And beyond that, in these documents, we have other examples of the CIA going beyond that charter. We have them listening to the phones of journalists in Washington. Now, remember, we knew that before these documents came out, but now we know more. And we have another name of a Washington Post reporter we did not know whose phone was being tapped that the CIA was listening to.

And beyond that, in these documents, we have other examples of the CIA going beyond that charter. We have them listening to the phones of journalists in Washington. Now, remember, we knew that before these documents came out, but now we know more. And we have another name of a Washington Post reporter we did not know whose phone was being tapped that the CIA was listening to.

But it's also true that this additional information feeds other conspiracy theories that have developed over the years. Take the eavesdropping on Washington journalists. That was part of a real program the CIA called Project Mockingbird. Right, you mentioned that before. But Robert F. Kennedy Jr.

But it's also true that this additional information feeds other conspiracy theories that have developed over the years. Take the eavesdropping on Washington journalists. That was part of a real program the CIA called Project Mockingbird. Right, you mentioned that before. But Robert F. Kennedy Jr.

often talks about something called Operation Mockingbird, which he says is an effort by the CIA to not just listen to journalists, but manipulate them, control them. So he's taken a kernel of a real thing, this real abuse of listening to Washington journalists, and morphed it into an entirely different conspiracy theory.

often talks about something called Operation Mockingbird, which he says is an effort by the CIA to not just listen to journalists, but manipulate them, control them. So he's taken a kernel of a real thing, this real abuse of listening to Washington journalists, and morphed it into an entirely different conspiracy theory.