David E. Sanger

Yes. And look, in the past, we've had releases of documents that have been meant to dispel conspiracy theories, to try and bring more rationality and logic and information into the debate. But now, maybe for the first time, we have people who are invested in the conspiracy theories, and they have a very different set of interests.

Yes. And look, in the past, we've had releases of documents that have been meant to dispel conspiracy theories, to try and bring more rationality and logic and information into the debate. But now, maybe for the first time, we have people who are invested in the conspiracy theories, and they have a very different set of interests.

Robert F. Kennedy is pushing this transparency in part because he believes there's new information about these conspiracy theories that he's pushed for years.

Robert F. Kennedy is pushing this transparency in part because he believes there's new information about these conspiracy theories that he's pushed for years.

Not completely. He may not believe every old conspiracy theory, but he definitely believes there's a conspiracy to get him today. He definitely believes the deep state is... is out to undermine his presidency. He blames them for the Mar-a-Lago classified documents investigation. He blames them for undermining his foreign policy.

Not completely. He may not believe every old conspiracy theory, but he definitely believes there's a conspiracy to get him today. He definitely believes the deep state is... is out to undermine his presidency. He blames them for the Mar-a-Lago classified documents investigation. He blames them for undermining his foreign policy.

So if something comes out that undermines the credibility of the intelligence agencies of the FBI, Trump does not oppose that.

So if something comes out that undermines the credibility of the intelligence agencies of the FBI, Trump does not oppose that.

Objectively, I would say the old history has very little to do with how the CIA operates today. There have been years of reform. There's far more congressional oversight today than there was in the 1960s. But that may be a minority view. A lot of people, they look at these old stories and they see proof of what they think is happening today.

Objectively, I would say the old history has very little to do with how the CIA operates today. There have been years of reform. There's far more congressional oversight today than there was in the 1960s. But that may be a minority view. A lot of people, they look at these old stories and they see proof of what they think is happening today.

And so even if we know that the CIA operates very differently, people use evidence of past mistakes to argue that there is a deep state that today is undermining the president.

And so even if we know that the CIA operates very differently, people use evidence of past mistakes to argue that there is a deep state that today is undermining the president.

That's a totally depressing thought. I really hope it's not true. But I don't really know what the way to counter that is but through more transparency and more objective looks at the information. More analysis that brings in the full context that pushes back against conspiratorial thinking. But conspiratorial thinking has been very sticky in America.

That's a totally depressing thought. I really hope it's not true. But I don't really know what the way to counter that is but through more transparency and more objective looks at the information. More analysis that brings in the full context that pushes back against conspiratorial thinking. But conspiratorial thinking has been very sticky in America.

I mean, go back to just the short time after the Kennedy assassination, only 30% of the people believed Oswald acted alone. Almost 50% believed there was a conspiracy. Now, those numbers have fluctuated some, but... After that JFK movie, only 10% of people believed Oswald acted alone. But today, years later, after all these revelations... Decades later, yeah. Decades later. 60 years later.

I mean, go back to just the short time after the Kennedy assassination, only 30% of the people believed Oswald acted alone. Almost 50% believed there was a conspiracy. Now, those numbers have fluctuated some, but... After that JFK movie, only 10% of people believed Oswald acted alone. But today, years later, after all these revelations... Decades later, yeah. Decades later. 60 years later.

We're back where we started, right? It's like 30% of people believed Oswald acted alone. 65% of people believed there was a conspiracy to kill Kennedy.

We're back where we started, right? It's like 30% of people believed Oswald acted alone. 65% of people believed there was a conspiracy to kill Kennedy.

Yeah, this is not a case against transparency. This is not an argument that we shouldn't be releasing this information. But it's just a reminder about how powerful the idea of conspiracy is, how much of a hold that has on the American mindset. And we can't think that another person

Yeah, this is not a case against transparency. This is not an argument that we shouldn't be releasing this information. But it's just a reminder about how powerful the idea of conspiracy is, how much of a hold that has on the American mindset. And we can't think that another person