David Frum

For the past two years, Graham has closely studied the Iranian regime.

As Iran closed the Strait of Hormuz, Graham has traveled to the region and reported intensely from both sides of the war zone.

And it's such a pleasure to welcome Graham to The David Fromm Show today.

Graham, thank you for joining me.

So let's talk about your snorkeling adventure.

For those who have not read this amazing piece of reportage or seen the sprightly video that emerged from it, tell us, what was that day like?

Well, that is because you think of it as even from the energy trade and all the traffic, an area of environmental devastation, even at the best of times.

And now it's the middle of a war zone.

And it looked like holiday pics from the video you took.

Well, this is one of the ways that this war shocked so many of our ideas about what modern war is like.

We are so used to seeing everything, or at least being presented with images that purport to show us everything.

And the idea that both combatants, the United States, Israel side on one hand and Iran on the other, would agree to a complete shutdown of imagery.

And then on what is the central economic battlefield, the Persian Gulf, nothing is happening.

That's the news.

So there are scenes presumably somewhere of extraordinary violence being unleashed.

And yet we don't see them.

We just see this peaceful blue water.

Now, you referenced lightly your departure from Dubai, but you were under fire there more than in the Gulf.

Your most recent article for The Atlantic, Mutually Assured Energy Destruction, suggests that what's going on here is a kind of deterrence, actually, between the United States and Iran, where neither is hitting quite as hard as it potentially could.

I mean, Dubai is a high-rise city full of, as you say, shopping malls.