David Hoffman

Well, Zuko, let's talk about then the gains we've made over the last decade or so or since you started Zcash and even before.

So, I mean, what has succeeded in crypto?

What are you excited about?

What are you surprised by in terms of our progress?

So the cryptography has been the big win in your mind.

I mean, some people, Zuko, they'll look at price charts and they'll say, we've made tremendous progress on that.

So the world has a non-sovereign store of value now that is digital, that is not gold.

They'll look at Bitcoin price charts, for instance, and they'll call that a win.

I think lately there's been a lot of themes around

crypto or blockchain's ability to kind of transform Wall Street, for instance.

So we're talking about a theme of last year has been suit coiners that are starting to build, you know, all these tokenized types of real world assets.

on top of blockchains.

And that feels maybe like a win.

It's not quite the crypto native like cypherpunk win that we thought, but it is extending the adoption of some of our protocols.

I mean, when you see stuff like that, Larry Fink rolling out ETFs, all of that, is that progress in your mind?

Like more wallets, more active wallets, more users?

So we have to make tools.

This is kind of the product, the tool side, the UX side, almost the number of users that we touch is now kind of the benchmark.

When you think about the cypherpunk vision and when you apply that to crypto, Zuko, what sort of use cases come to mind?

And I guess from observing crypto for so long, there are lots of cypherpunk things that have been hoped to be achieved by crypto natives.