David Marchese

Hey, Rutger. How are you? I'm good. Good to see you. Good to see you again. You're smiling impishly. Why is that?

Hey, Rutger. How are you? I'm good. Good to see you. Good to see you again. You're smiling impishly. Why is that?

That implies a fight. That was not what this was. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That implies a fight. That was not what this was. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So I want to get right into this, and I promise that I'm not raising this sarcastically. I mean it sincerely. So I could imagine someone coming across this interview and thinking, all right, Rutger, the school and your books sound noble and well-intentioned, but isn't there something more morally ambitious that you could be doing?

So I want to get right into this, and I promise that I'm not raising this sarcastically. I mean it sincerely. So I could imagine someone coming across this interview and thinking, all right, Rutger, the school and your books sound noble and well-intentioned, but isn't there something more morally ambitious that you could be doing?

Yeah. You know, earlier when we were talking about how you would measure the success of the School for Moral Ambition, you talked about how in Europe the organization has chosen the tobacco industry as a leading cause to fight against.

Yeah. You know, earlier when we were talking about how you would measure the success of the School for Moral Ambition, you talked about how in Europe the organization has chosen the tobacco industry as a leading cause to fight against.

And I have to say that surprised me a little because of all the pressing causes in the world, if I made a list of the most urgent ones, I would think of things like climate change or rising authoritarianism or increasing oligarchical consolidation of power. I realize tobacco use is a serious problem, but I don't know that it would have been high on my list. So why is...

And I have to say that surprised me a little because of all the pressing causes in the world, if I made a list of the most urgent ones, I would think of things like climate change or rising authoritarianism or increasing oligarchical consolidation of power. I realize tobacco use is a serious problem, but I don't know that it would have been high on my list. So why is...

the tobacco industry at the top of your schools list? And is there an argument that maybe it could also be aiming higher?

the tobacco industry at the top of your schools list? And is there an argument that maybe it could also be aiming higher?

Yeah, no, it's interesting, because for me, it raises the idea of how one thinks about ambition, because... You know, you could think about ambition in terms of, like, what is the most tractable problem to solve that's not being solved? Or you could think about ambition in terms of what is the problem that seems like it doesn't have an easy solution but needs to be solved?

Yeah, no, it's interesting, because for me, it raises the idea of how one thinks about ambition, because... You know, you could think about ambition in terms of, like, what is the most tractable problem to solve that's not being solved? Or you could think about ambition in terms of what is the problem that seems like it doesn't have an easy solution but needs to be solved?

Like, for example, climate change. It's an interesting question about how to direct one's energies.

Like, for example, climate change. It's an interesting question about how to direct one's energies.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But this still raises for me the question of like, what is so your issue, the equivalent one that you would accept that it was the fight to achieve it would be going on after you died is factory farming.

But this still raises for me the question of like, what is so your issue, the equivalent one that you would accept that it was the fight to achieve it would be going on after you died is factory farming.