David Marchese

Well, something that I think can complicate the choices that people make is the idea of us versus them. Very often the moral side we're inclined to take is the side of people like us. So how do we get around the problem of tribalism?

Well, something that I think can complicate the choices that people make is the idea of us versus them. Very often the moral side we're inclined to take is the side of people like us. So how do we get around the problem of tribalism?

I want to go back to one of your earlier books for a moment. So you wrote Utopia for Realists 10 or 11 years ago. And in my mind, that book fit in with sort of an argument that somebody like Steven Pinker is maybe best known for making, which is, you know, hey, we can do all the doomsaying we want.

I want to go back to one of your earlier books for a moment. So you wrote Utopia for Realists 10 or 11 years ago. And in my mind, that book fit in with sort of an argument that somebody like Steven Pinker is maybe best known for making, which is, you know, hey, we can do all the doomsaying we want.

We're actually living in the greatest moment in human history to be alive when people are wealthier and healthier than ever before. Right. You're smiling because you probably know where this question is going. But then also in your book, you have a sentence along the lines of, you know, politics has been reduced to problem management. Yeah.

We're actually living in the greatest moment in human history to be alive when people are wealthier and healthier than ever before. Right. You're smiling because you probably know where this question is going. But then also in your book, you have a sentence along the lines of, you know, politics has been reduced to problem management. Yeah.

And the differences between the right and left are really are about tax rates, you know.

And the differences between the right and left are really are about tax rates, you know.

None of that feels like it particularly describes the world in 2025. How do you account for the fact that in just 10 years, which is a historically minute period of time, the world feels so different than the one that you were describing in Utopia for Realists?

None of that feels like it particularly describes the world in 2025. How do you account for the fact that in just 10 years, which is a historically minute period of time, the world feels so different than the one that you were describing in Utopia for Realists?

So what would you say you stand for? What do you mean? Well, you said, what do we stand for? It's not just what are we against?

So what would you say you stand for? What do you mean? Well, you said, what do we stand for? It's not just what are we against?

So what are the things that you stand for?

So what are the things that you stand for?

You know, a couple of weeks ago, after we scheduled this interview, I had emailed your publicist and asked if she could ask you for a selection of books that have been influential on you. And you were nice enough to send it. And I read them. And one of the books was Peter Thiel's Zero to One.

You know, a couple of weeks ago, after we scheduled this interview, I had emailed your publicist and asked if she could ask you for a selection of books that have been influential on you. And you were nice enough to send it. And I read them. And one of the books was Peter Thiel's Zero to One.

You know, he says that when he interviews people for positions, you know, the one thing he always asks is, what's an important truth to you? that you believe that very few people agree with you on. What's your answer to that question?

You know, he says that when he interviews people for positions, you know, the one thing he always asks is, what's an important truth to you? that you believe that very few people agree with you on. What's your answer to that question?

After the break, I talked to Rutger again about what really drives him.

After the break, I talked to Rutger again about what really drives him.