David Marchese

The craft part isn't the problem.

Saunders, who is 67, has been a revered teacher in Syracuse's prestigious creative writing MFA program since 1996.

His 2021 bestseller, A Swim in a Pond in the Rain, was a distillation of his teaching, featuring close readings of Russian short stories.

And out of that book came a substack called Story Club with George Saunders, where he continues to teach, answers reader letters, and shares writing exercises with more than 300,000 followers.

He also has a new novel out this month called Vigil, about a cantankerous oil tycoon on his deathbed.

It's the kindness part, though, where things can get a little tricky.

In 2013, Saunders gave a convocation speech to Syracuse graduates all about the power of practicing kindness.

That speech went viral and then was repackaged as the best-selling book titled Congratulations, by the way.

The success of that speech has wound up casting Saunders into a kind of self-helpy guru of goodness role, which is frankly a little strange given the satirical bite of his fiction.

And it's also just kind of an odd thing for someone to have to live with, because as he explained in our conversation, he's just as fallible and flawed as the rest of us, and as his unforgettable characters.

Here's my interview with George Saunders.

George, thanks for taking the time to be here today.

You know, I have to start with a confession and an apology.

I met you probably like 16 or 17 years ago at the Brooklyn Book Festival, where my girlfriend at the time, who's now my wife, was working for a magazine called Radar.

And as a gag, the

I assigned her and some other junior people to try and get authors to write, like, jokey inscriptions on their books.

And she, to her credit, couldn't bring herself to do it, so got me to do it.

And I came up to you, and I asked you— I can tell you what it said.

I felt so bad about it.

And at one point you looked at me and you said, is this real?