David Marchese

Special thanks to Max Carpenter, Rory Walsh, Renan Borelli, Jeffrey Miranda, Maddie Maciello, Jake Silverstein, Paula Schumann, and Sam Dolnick. If you like what you're hearing, follow or subscribe to The Interview wherever you get your podcasts. To read or listen to any of our conversations, you can always go to nytimes.com slash theinterview.

Special thanks to Max Carpenter, Rory Walsh, Renan Borelli, Jeffrey Miranda, Maddie Maciello, Jake Silverstein, Paula Schumann, and Sam Dolnick. If you like what you're hearing, follow or subscribe to The Interview wherever you get your podcasts. To read or listen to any of our conversations, you can always go to nytimes.com slash theinterview.

And you can email us anytime at theinterview at nytimes.com. Next week, guest host Gilbert Cruz, editor of the New York Times Book Review, interviews author Isabel Allende.

And you can email us anytime at theinterview at nytimes.com. Next week, guest host Gilbert Cruz, editor of the New York Times Book Review, interviews author Isabel Allende.

I think that my way of getting over things, of understanding, of exploring my own soul, my past, and also, most important, of remembering, is writing.

I think that my way of getting over things, of understanding, of exploring my own soul, my past, and also, most important, of remembering, is writing.

I'm David Marchese, and this is The Interview from The New York Times.

I'm David Marchese, and this is The Interview from The New York Times.

You know, Michael, it's nothing short of mind-blowing that this is coming out of Donald Trump and his team, especially when you consider the fact that in 2024 during the campaign, if you believe the Biden administration's Justice Department, the Iranians had actually hired some contract killers to try to assassinate Trump.

You know, Michael, it's nothing short of mind-blowing that this is coming out of Donald Trump and his team, especially when you consider the fact that in 2024 during the campaign, if you believe the Biden administration's Justice Department, the Iranians had actually hired some contract killers to try to assassinate Trump.

That's right. So what's happening now... is in some ways completely unexpected because, of course, during the first term, Trump not only tore up the old agreement, but it was pretty clear from the Iran hawks he surrounded himself with, like Mike Pompeo, the Secretary of State, that what they really wanted to do was crush the Iranian regime, force it into huge changes.

That's right. So what's happening now... is in some ways completely unexpected because, of course, during the first term, Trump not only tore up the old agreement, but it was pretty clear from the Iran hawks he surrounded himself with, like Mike Pompeo, the Secretary of State, that what they really wanted to do was crush the Iranian regime, force it into huge changes.

Yet now the strategic circumstances are quite different and Trump's approach is different.

Yet now the strategic circumstances are quite different and Trump's approach is different.

So no country has put more effort into building a nuclear weapon for a longer period of time than the Iranians have. When you think about it, it's taken them well more than two decades, far longer than it took the Israelis, the Indians, the Pakistanis to go build a bomb. And that in part has been because they've been of two minds about it. On the one hand, they want a weapon.

So no country has put more effort into building a nuclear weapon for a longer period of time than the Iranians have. When you think about it, it's taken them well more than two decades, far longer than it took the Israelis, the Indians, the Pakistanis to go build a bomb. And that in part has been because they've been of two minds about it. On the one hand, they want a weapon.

Israel has nuclear weapons. Right. And so they felt that they should have them. But also because they believed that as one of the Middle East's biggest, oldest powers— they should be a senior member of the nuclear club.

Israel has nuclear weapons. Right. And so they felt that they should have them. But also because they believed that as one of the Middle East's biggest, oldest powers— they should be a senior member of the nuclear club.

But at the same time, they've been nervous about it because they know that as soon as they get too close to a weapon, the chances that the Israelis attack, maybe with American support, is very high. So in 2003, for example, after the United States had invaded Afghanistan and then Iraq,

But at the same time, they've been nervous about it because they know that as soon as they get too close to a weapon, the chances that the Israelis attack, maybe with American support, is very high. So in 2003, for example, after the United States had invaded Afghanistan and then Iraq,