David Marchese

And I think, presumably, certainly if someone like Thomas Clarkson is the model, that is wildly... insufficient if my goal is to in any way help bring about a better world am i really prepared to do more than that i don't know but i would like someone maybe someone like you to help me better understand like what is the level at which i can say i'm doing enough

And, you know, the book also has this implicit idea that there is a deficit of moral ambition.

And, you know, the book also has this implicit idea that there is a deficit of moral ambition.

But I want to press on that a little because one could say that the movement to overturn Roe versus Wade was a morally motivated movement.

But I want to press on that a little because one could say that the movement to overturn Roe versus Wade was a morally motivated movement.

Or one could also— Maybe it would take a little fancy footwork, but one could argue that, you know, what happened on January 6th was a morally driven movement. So what do you think would account for the possibility that moral ambition on the right seems to be more ascendant at the moment or maybe more effectively utilized than moral ambition on the left?

Or one could also— Maybe it would take a little fancy footwork, but one could argue that, you know, what happened on January 6th was a morally driven movement. So what do you think would account for the possibility that moral ambition on the right seems to be more ascendant at the moment or maybe more effectively utilized than moral ambition on the left?

Do you think there are reasons that would explain why the left still needs to learn the lessons that the right seems to have learned when it comes to affecting the moral changes it wants to see?

Do you think there are reasons that would explain why the left still needs to learn the lessons that the right seems to have learned when it comes to affecting the moral changes it wants to see?

Do you think there are different ways that the left could be communicating its moral messages that might cut through, particularly for younger people and particularly for younger men, in the way that cultural conservatives seem to be reaching that same audience?

Do you think there are different ways that the left could be communicating its moral messages that might cut through, particularly for younger people and particularly for younger men, in the way that cultural conservatives seem to be reaching that same audience?

Yeah, these are stories of young men who are... It's a bad sign if we have to point to Frodo and Luke Skywalker. Okay.

Yeah, these are stories of young men who are... It's a bad sign if we have to point to Frodo and Luke Skywalker. Okay.

You know, for me, sort of one of the more fundamental questions is how might we determine whether or not the moral problem that we want to take on will end up being proved the historically right one? And, you know, so somebody could want to support the cause of Israelis. They could want to support the cause of Palestinians. They could be energized morally by Donald Trump.

You know, for me, sort of one of the more fundamental questions is how might we determine whether or not the moral problem that we want to take on will end up being proved the historically right one? And, you know, so somebody could want to support the cause of Israelis. They could want to support the cause of Palestinians. They could be energized morally by Donald Trump.

They could be energized morally by Bernie Sanders. Mm-hmm. But insofar as somebody might want to determine whether or not the side that they're energized by is the right side, how might they try to figure that out?

They could be energized morally by Bernie Sanders. Mm-hmm. But insofar as somebody might want to determine whether or not the side that they're energized by is the right side, how might they try to figure that out?

Well, something that I think can complicate the choices that people make is the idea of us versus them. Very often the moral side we're inclined to take is the side of people like us. So how do we get around the problem of tribalism?

Well, something that I think can complicate the choices that people make is the idea of us versus them. Very often the moral side we're inclined to take is the side of people like us. So how do we get around the problem of tribalism?

I want to go back to one of your earlier books for a moment. So you wrote Utopia for Realists 10 or 11 years ago. And in my mind, that book fit in with sort of an argument that somebody like Steven Pinker is maybe best known for making, which is, you know, hey, we can do all the doomsaying we want.