David McCloskey

Yeah, I mean, so much so that the Israelis, I think it was their sort of public diplomacy initiative, had partnered with Shin Bet, the internal security service, to run a campaign that was, I think it was titled, like, Easy Money, Heavy Price, to try to get the word out about this because it had gotten so prevalent.

I mean, because obviously the number of indictments, I think there have been 60 or so in Israel, right?

is the tip of the iceberg, right?

For the number of people in the society who have been contacted and maybe in some cases convinced to do some amount of work for Iranian intelligence in a winning or unwitting fashion.

We...

We used to talk at the agency about, you know, high CI, counterintelligence threat environments.

And it was kind of, when I was in, it was like a very geographically bounded conversation.

And it's totally changed now because you don't have to go to Iran.

You don't have to go to a place where you have a lot of Iranian intelligence officers or Iranian militia or anything like that to be contacted by Iran.

By the Iranian intelligence services, right?

You could be sitting in London on Telegram and you can be recruited to do things that are very useful for them.

And you're the one, as we're seeing, that bears the entire burden and cost of this.

They don't care if you get caught.

They'll just move on to the next person.

So it is very...

Yeah, no, absolutely.

And Jumat, I wanted to ask, because I know you're in Amman, Jordan right now, what's the view from Amman when we look at Iran?

And it doesn't necessarily have to be connected to this intelligence story we've been talking about, but just even more broadly, as we look at

The conflict in Iran and the possibility that it could restart.

I mean, what is your sense of how Jordan, the government, the people are responding to the ongoing tension of the region?