David Plouffe

So I think Democrats are going to have to be they shouldn't be.

like reflexively just anti-tech.

It should be like, whether it's AI, whether it's competition, whether it's data, whether it's tax policy, what's the right thing for the country?

And some of those questions, I think you can do that in a cooperative frame with tech leaders and others, you're going to be opposed to them.

But that doesn't mean you don't have dialogue.

Listen, I believe we didn't do it perfectly, but in the Obama administration, certainly,

Even when you're going up against somebody, you want to have a conversation with them.

You learn from that.

You understand where they're coming from.

So I think that's one thing that I would say generally, less from politics, from a substantive standpoint, the more you're talking to people, the more you learn and the better decisions you'll make.

been somewhat you know insulated from that you know manly insecurity well you gotta have the chicago tough skin i mean listen i mentioned one of the things that unifies i think a lot of the political and entertainment and uh even business figures supporting magas they don't want rules you know they don't want criticism you know some of that's for business aim for sure

and power, but a lot of it is because they're so thin-skinned.

Listen, I think for a lot of tech leaders, not all, a lot of tech leaders, they really want to be treated as if they're running a charity, as if what they're doing is on behalf and good for the world.

And there's no doubt some of their products are, but you're running a business first and foremost.

And I think that they want to be put up on a pedestal.

And what's interesting, of course, is Trump puts them on the pedestal, then he cuts out the pedestal.

So I think some of what these folks are learning is it's not like they're protected from the vagaries of Trump and his administration.

You basically prostrate yourself and you still could get a really adverse effect.

Yeah, I think generally we'd be better off as a society if our leaders in both parties' corrupt business had a lot tougher skin and could endure criticism.

Even criticism they find unfair and just slough it off.