David Rosenthal

Obviously, he's retired.

LeBron James has 157 million Instagram followers.

And it's not just LeBron.

Steph Curry has 60.

There are a bunch of NBA players with 20 to 30.

You know, you can debate the value of all this, but, like, it's wild that number one in the NFL is under 8 million.

And one in the NBA is 157 and number two is 60.

That's what I was going to say.

Back when we originally made this episode, I think these numbers and the difference mattered a lot more.

These days, whatever inning we're in in social media, we've shifted away from follower counts and more towards algorithm and more TikTokification of everything.

So yeah, I think pure follower counts is not a great measure.

And I think also you know an unmeasurable thing is just cultural relevance and to me it feels undeniable that the NFL's cultural relevance has grown a lot in the last few years.

even just to stick on Travis Kelsey here for a minute.

I mean, the new heights podcast reportedly signed a hundred million dollar plus deal with Amazon.

That's right there for, you know, one show, forget everything else that Travis and Jason are doing, et cetera.

Yes, exactly.

I also just feel it in my life, too.

I mean, like my wife, Jenny, couldn't care less about football, but especially since Taylor and Travis, she knows whether Taylor's going to the games or not.

She knows that Kyle Juszczyk on the 49ers, that his wife designed the jacket that Taylor wore to the playoffs last year.

All of this might not be directly monetizable for the NFL, but it is growing the status and cultural relevance of the game.