David Sacks

for putting himself in the middle of things.

I think 2011 is when I discovered Bitcoin.

So that was relatively early.

I thought it was almost comical the way that Jason was trying to warn Epstein, oh, you don't want to meet these guys.

These are some crazies.

They're like these crypto libertarians.

They want to take down the government.

There's no profit.

There's no investment opportunity here.

In a way, it was kind of

comical that Jason was trying to warn Epstein about the Bitcoin guys rather than vice versa.

But I don't really think people knew at that point in time what Epstein was involved in.

Do you disagree with that?

Do you think people should have known by 2011?

But it wasn't widely publicized at the time.

I thought the Palm Beach story didn't come out until, or sorry, maybe it was the Miami Herald, didn't come out until 2018.

Yeah, it's hard for me to judge.

I certainly, in that time period, had never even heard of Jeffrey Epstein.

And I don't think most people had.

When did this become sort of a cause celeb?